Reading all that reminded me that as a grad student at Manchester (UK), I programmed the "Oscilloscope Display Type 34D" attached to the PDP-8 that I was using. That was in 1969/70. I've completely forgotten the details of my software, but judging by the relevant manual (the 1966 PDP-8 User's Handbook) it could display only one spot at a time, specified by (x,y,intensity). Everything else was left to the programmer; any vectors or rasters were generated by software, and the main loop of your program had to refresh the display constantly. Sounds as if HP was ahead of the game. All the same, the PDS-1 changed everything, in my opinion. When did the DEC Type 340 display arrive? Google is not helping me on that. (It is nothing to do with the VT340 which was 20 years later.) "The DEC Type 340 display could draw dots, straight lines, curved lines and characters, and read the position of the lightpen." [ https://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/computer-graphics-music-and-art/1... ] Regards Brian Carpenter On 21-Feb-21 11:34, Chuck House wrote:
Win, I believe that you are right, certainly with respect to the Sketchpad displays, which were "vector" but not very fast-vector.
Some may recall that Sketchpad "movies" of the day were in fact stitched together from multiple compute-runs, e.g. the Ford fender deformation movie shown at IBM SHARE in Ne Orleans in 1965. The reason was that the display being used was electromagnetic, and hence not fast enough to display dynamic images of the quality needed. My team and the development team for HP's prototype HP 2116 minicomputer were at the SHARE conference, dazzled by Ivan's talk and display images. And that was the birth of our decision to build the HP 1300A. I visited Ivan and the Sketchpad team shortly thereafter, and was very disappointed to learn that what they had was so limited, but in retrospect, they had no effective display technology choice.
There is no question that Ivan and team knew, and described, their drawings as 'vector drawings' Essentially, these were some of the first wire-frame displays being constructed, to my knowledge, for real work.
Chuck House www.innovascapesinstitute.com <http://www.innovascapesinstitute.com> www.anywhereanytime.io/covid19 <http://www.anywhereanytime.io/covid19>
http://innovascapes.blogspot.com 805-570-6706
On 2/20/21, 2:16 PM, "Members on behalf of Win Treese" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of treese@acm.org> wrote:
This is all some speculation and a little bit of poking around, but I wonder if the term “vector graphics” came about after people started to using raster graphics. For example, Ivan Sutherland’s PhD thesis on Sketchpad in 1963 just talks about a “display”, although it’s usually characterized as a “vector display” in later discussions about it because the MIT Lincoln Labs TX-2 display that Sutherland used was ultimately derived from oscilloscopes. Raster techniques based on the scanning in CRTs started, I think, in the late 60s. (Just to be clear, the TX-2 display was a “vector display”, but that term doesn’t show up in Sutherland’s work at the time).
Not that it’s definitive in any way, but a Google Ngrams search for “vector graphics” vs “raster graphics”[1] might support this idea, because both terms seem to take off at about the same time around 1973. Oddly, there’s a weird bump from around 1937 to 1946 or so for “vector graphics”, but a quick look at the results tends to find either something about drawing or isn’t a good search result (bad ngrams!)
- Win
> On Feb 20, 2021, at 3:48 PM, Jacob Gaboury <gaboury@gmail.com> wrote: > > This is a fascinating question Bernie, and makes me even more excited for your new work! I would echo Brian's suggestion that "vector" was probably just the best word in both cases, as its history and use predates the SAGE system itself. An interesting question might be when and why the term "calligraphic display" was used as a synonym for vector displays, as I imagine that did not begin until well into the development of early graphical systems. It's also worth noting that the SAGE system used Charactron tubes for its 19" display consoles, which are extruded beam displays and not vector displays. It's possible vector displays were used elsewhere in the system, but I believe the consoles used by operators were Charactron tubes. > > -- > Jacob Gaboury > Assistant Professor of New Media History and Theory > Dept. of Film & Media, University of California, Berkeley > jacobgaboury.com/ > > On Sat, Feb 20, 2021 at 12:30 PM Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> wrote: > Bernard, > > I think that 'vector' in the sense of directing an intercepting aircraft towards an enemy aircraft was first used by the RAF during WW II. (I'm not an expert but I did read a lot of popular books about WW II as a teenager.) You can find something about this and some references in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowding_system . So that was certainly not original to SAGE, and appears to go back at least to 1935. Presumably it derived from the use of 'vector' in mathematics, which goes back to the 1840s. > > I have no idea whether using it to describe the SAGE displays was an independent choice, but again it very precisely matches the mathematical use of 'vector'. IMHO, it was just the right word for both cases. > > (My personal first experience of vector graphics was as an Imlac PDS-1 programmer in 1971. Since I'd been taught about mathematical vectors, it just struck me as the obvious description.) > > Regards > Brian Carpenter > > On 20-Feb-21 21:27, Bernard Geoghegan wrote: > > Hi SIGCISers, > > > > > > > > Can anyone advise on the origin of the term “vector graphics.” > > > > > > > > Clearly, it literally describes a production of “vectors” on the screen by a concrete line-drawing technology. However, I’m wondering if there were multiple senses in that term initially. Specifically, looking through SAGE documentation from the 1950s and 1960s, esp, accounts of if operator displays, “vector” describes the physical trajectory of planes on the display. As SAGE was also a key source for early graphical interfaces, I’m wondering of the term “vector graphics” had a double connotation, as an analogy between the flight paths and the manner of illustrating graphics. > > > > > > > > It’s not earth shaking, but it’s etymologically neat-o if one can trace “vector graphics” to multiple connotations at its coinage. > > > > > > > > Best, b > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org > _______________________________________________ > This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
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_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org