Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source.
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462 From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net> To: <members@sigcis.org> Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette Longo James Cortada wrote:
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right.
Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for po
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net>
To: <members@sigcis.org>
Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Hey, Just did a quick check on JSTOR on the Science Service's The Science News-letter (what I assume Bernadette Longo refered to). The term "mechanical brain" is used about three times in the 1930s for some kind of calculator or control system. First instance in 1930 for a planetarium's control system (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 17, No. 475 (May 17, 1930), pp. 312-313) and then in 1932 to describe Bush's Differential Analyzer (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 22, No. 606 (Nov. 19, 1932), p. 320), which is also called a mathematical brain. The phrase "electronic 'brain'" is used to refer to a computing gunsight in 1944 (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 46, No. 21 (Nov. 18, 1944), p. 326) Note that for example the press release by Harvard in 1944 for the IBM ASCC/Harvard Mark I refers to it as a "super-brain." (p. 124, Cohen, _Howard Aiken: Portrait of a computer pioneer_) So I think it is safe to say that the use of the word/analogy of brain to describe a computer was popular before Berkeley. The exact phrase "giant brain" is apparently not used anywhere in JSTOR's database (which is a number of scientific and other journals) before 1950 to describe machines... I did a quick check of the NY Times and found an article from 1947 with the following title "NEW GIANT 'BRAIN' DOES WIZARD WORK; Bureau of Standards Says It Can Solve Vast Mathematical Problems in a Few Minutes" August 25, 1947, Monday Page 19, 602 words. About the Bureau of Standards plans for machines,"giant "electronic brains"" refered to, so the title may be an abreviation of that. It is based off a U.P. newswire. However this is the only pre-1949 reference, so it hardly suggests it is a popular description. Refering to early computers as giant brains is a natural way to describe them given their size and previous practice and so the phrase was probably coined more than once (like many computer algorithms that have been invented multiple times). I suspect if you did a search of all searchable newspapers and other available sources you would find a few more instances of the phrase "giant brain" however it does seem to me like Berkeley popularized the description. -- Yours Truly, Allan Olley http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/ On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Bernadette Longo wrote:
Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette Longo
James Cortada wrote:
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right.
Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for po
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net>
To: <members@sigcis.org>
Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
The title has great retro kitsch value, but I believe that "Giant Brains" popularized a more important phrase. Berkeley defined the computer as "a machine that handles information, transfers information from one part of the machine to another and has a flexible control over the sequence of its operation." This makes it special because transfers information automatically, doesn't need minute to minute instructions -this makes "a deep break with the past" even though "machines that handle information have existed for more than 200 years." So he situates the as one in a long lineof information handling machines going back to languages as "systems for handling information", nerve cells, cave paintings, books, etc as "physical equipment for handling information." That's the context in which it makes sense to call a computer a giant brain, not because both think but because both handle information. While Shannon's information theory had obvious relevance for people building digital computers, this is the earliest (1949) expansive framing I'm aware of for the computer as a universal information processing machine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows of an earlier one, but it's surely the earliest one to reach a mass general audience. Tom 2009/1/31 Allan Olley <allan.olley@utoronto.ca>
Hey, Just did a quick check on JSTOR on the Science Service's The Science News-letter (what I assume Bernadette Longo refered to). The term "mechanical brain" is used about three times in the 1930s for some kind of calculator or control system. First instance in 1930 for a planetarium's control system (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 17, No. 475 (May 17, 1930), pp. 312-313) and then in 1932 to describe Bush's Differential Analyzer (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 22, No. 606 (Nov. 19, 1932), p. 320), which is also called a mathematical brain. The phrase "electronic 'brain'" is used to refer to a computing gunsight in 1944 (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 46, No. 21 (Nov. 18, 1944), p. 326) Note that for example the press release by Harvard in 1944 for the IBM ASCC/Harvard Mark I refers to it as a "super-brain." (p. 124, Cohen, _Howard Aiken: Portrait of a computer pioneer_) So I think it is safe to say that the use of the word/analogy of brain to describe a computer was popular before Berkeley. The exact phrase "giant brain" is apparently not used anywhere in JSTOR's database (which is a number of scientific and other journals) before 1950 to describe machines... I did a quick check of the NY Times and found an article from 1947 with the following title "NEW GIANT 'BRAIN' DOES WIZARD WORK; Bureau of Standards Says It Can Solve Vast Mathematical Problems in a Few Minutes" August 25, 1947, Monday Page 19, 602 words. About the Bureau of Standards plans for machines,"giant "electronic brains"" refered to, so the title may be an abreviation of that. It is based off a U.P. newswire. However this is the only pre-1949 reference, so it hardly suggests it is a popular description. Refering to early computers as giant brains is a natural way to describe them given their size and previous practice and so the phrase was probably coined more than once (like many computer algorithms that have been invented multiple times). I suspect if you did a search of all searchable newspapers and other available sources you would find a few more instances of the phrase "giant brain" however it does seem to me like Berkeley popularized the description. -- Yours Truly, Allan Olley
http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Bernadette Longo wrote:
Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette Longo
James Cortada wrote:
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right.
Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for po
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net>
To: <members@sigcis.org>
Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette Longo
James Cortada wrote:
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was
So much good dialogue has taken place today on this topic that I think we should ask Evan to consolidate all of this into a short article that goes into one of the back sections of the Annals or into an article in some media journal. If that works, there are a bunch of other things we could flush out from time to time using this social networking/wisdom of crowds approach. We might even expand Evan's assignment by discussing automation next weekend and then the following weekend cybernetics. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462 From: Thomas Haigh <thaigh@computer.org> To: members@sigcis.org Date: 01/31/09 02:50 PM Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" The title has great retro kitsch value, but I believe that "Giant Brains" popularized a more important phrase. Berkeley defined the computer as "a machine that handles information, transfers information from one part of the machine to another and has a flexible control over the sequence of its operation." This makes it special because transfers information automatically, doesn't need minute to minute instructions -this makes "a deep break with the past" even though "machines that handle information have existed for more than 200 years." So he situates the as one in a long lineof information handling machines going back to languages as "systems for handling information", nerve cells, cave paintings, books, etc as "physical equipment for handling information." That's the context in which it makes sense to call a computer a giant brain, not because both think but because both handle information. While Shannon's information theory had obvious relevance for people building digital computers, this is the earliest (1949) expansive framing I'm aware of for the computer as a universal information processing machine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows of an earlier one, but it's surely the earliest one to reach a mass general audience. Tom 2009/1/31 Allan Olley <allan.olley@utoronto.ca> Hey, Just did a quick check on JSTOR on the Science Service's The Science News-letter (what I assume Bernadette Longo refered to). The term "mechanical brain" is used about three times in the 1930s for some kind of calculator or control system. First instance in 1930 for a planetarium's control system (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 17, No. 475 (May 17, 1930), pp. 312-313) and then in 1932 to describe Bush's Differential Analyzer (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 22, No. 606 (Nov. 19, 1932), p. 320), which is also called a mathematical brain. The phrase "electronic 'brain'" is used to refer to a computing gunsight in 1944 (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 46, No. 21 (Nov. 18, 1944), p. 326) Note that for example the press release by Harvard in 1944 for the IBM ASCC/Harvard Mark I refers to it as a "super-brain." (p. 124, Cohen, _Howard Aiken: Portrait of a computer pioneer_) So I think it is safe to say that the use of the word/analogy of brain to describe a computer was popular before Berkeley. The exact phrase "giant brain" is apparently not used anywhere in JSTOR's database (which is a number of scientific and other journals) before 1950 to describe machines... I did a quick check of the NY Times and found an article from 1947 with the following title "NEW GIANT 'BRAIN' DOES WIZARD WORK; Bureau of Standards Says It Can Solve Vast Mathematical Problems in a Few Minutes" August 25, 1947, Monday Page 19, 602 words. About the Bureau of Standards plans for machines,"giant "electronic brains"" refered to, so the title may be an abreviation of that. It is based off a U.P. newswire. However this is the only pre-1949 reference, so it hardly suggests it is a popular description. Refering to early computers as giant brains is a natural way to describe them given their size and previous practice and so the phrase was probably coined more than once (like many computer algorithms that have been invented multiple times). I suspect if you did a search of all searchable newspapers and other available sources you would find a few more instances of the phrase "giant brain" however it does seem to me like Berkeley popularized the description. -- Yours Truly, Allan Olley http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/ On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Bernadette Longo wrote: the
first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right.
Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for po
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net>
To: <members@sigcis.org>
Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains"
Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing
it?
I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
So much good dialogue has taken place today on this topic that I think we should ask Evan to consolidate all of this into a short article that goes into one of the back sections of the Annals or into an article in some media journal. If that works, there are a bunch of other things we could flush out from time to time using this social networking/wisdom of crowds approach. We might even expand Evan's assignment by discussing automation next weekend and then the following weekend cybernetics.
To follow up Jim's suggestion: according to various sources, Del S. Harder started an Automation Department at Ford in 1947. Some say that he coined the word, but without offering evidence to show a precise origin. Diebold's book was published by Van Nostrand in 1952. Several sources, none giving any dates earlier than 1946 for Harder's use of the term: A Brief Historical Perspective on Factory Automation, S.T. Enns, P. Zhu and P. Suwanruji, Dept. of Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineering, University of Calgary, in the APICS Newsletter, March 2004, pp 5-7. http://www.apics-calgary.org/NewsletterArchive/APICSnewsletter_Mar04.pdf . Slava Gerovitch's "Automation" article in the Encyclopedia of Computer Science says that Ford established an Automation Department in 1947, though without referring to Harder. Dirk de Wit, _The Shaping of Automation_ Publikaties Faculteit der Historische en Kunstwetenschappen, Rotterdam, 1994 discusses the origin of the term, attributing it to Harder at Ford in 1947. (Google books). Time Magazine, "Automation Speeds Recovery, Boosts Productivity, Pares Jobs", Dec 29, 1961 http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,827230,00.html , anecdotally attributes the term to Harder. David Hemmendinger hemmendd@union.edu Computer Science Dept. http://athena.union.edu/~hemmendd Union College +1 518 388 6319 Schenectady, NY 12308 FAX: +1 518 388 6789
As many of you are probably aware, one of SHOT's prizes is for a technology exhibit at a museum. I just joined the prize committee and want to make sure that if any really great exhibits that you have seen that have been opened to the public anywhere in the world in the past two years gets a chance to compete. If you are aware of a potential candidate, would you let me know? Here is a description of the award: http://www.historyoftechnology.org/awards/dibner.html I would like to move on this fairly quickly as the deadline is looming. Thanks! Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
There certainly were references to mechanical brains before the electronic ones, and there were also references to electric brains. Here is a 1948 quote, which I circulate to the list because it shows what someone like Edmund Berkeley could read while he was preparing his 1949 book: "During the war when paint was hard to get everywhere, steel power lines in tropic India rusted and fell. A power company in that far-off land had to find a way to send the same amount of electricity over the remaining transmission lines. Logically they brought the problem to Americas largest electromechanical brain at Georgia Tech. The brain has thought out similar problems from Florida to Pennsylvania"(0. Fanning, Tech Electric Brain Fixcs India Power, Atlanta J., p.2-B, July 25, 1948: the same article also described to this network analyzer as a 'giant brain'). For colleagues who may have a further interest in the issue: The quote is included in a 1996 article that I wrote for the Annals of the History of Computing (Annals, Volume 18, Number 4). In this I argued that there is deep continuity in the ideology of calling computing artifacts 'brains' (and intelligent machines, more generally), and that it is this continuity that explains why there was not much objection to the post-World War II presentation of the electronic computer as a thinking machine: the society was habituated to such presentations for many decades before the 1940s. At the time I had little idea of how deep this continuity actually was. Every genre of pre-electronic computing artifacts that I had the opportunity to study since then (used in the context of computing electrification or more generally) was uniformly thought as capable of artificial intelligence. The network analyzer of the interwar period looked physically like the ENIAC. But even something as humble as a slide rule (not to say a desktop calculator or a planimeter) was habitually called "brainy". -- Αριστοτέλης Τύμπας / Aristotle Tympas Assistant Professor, History of Technology in Modernity University of Athens, Greece Webpage: http://www.phs.uoa.gr/hst/Tympas.html
Dear all, For two early advertisements of "Steel Brains" from Finland, see the following urls: http://users.utu.fi/jaasuo/tietokoneen-takapuoli/brunsviga1.gif http://users.utu.fi/jaasuo/tietokoneen-takapuoli/brunsviga2.gif Both of them are advertisements of Brunsviga calculators. The first one, from the year 1909 advertises in Swedish, for example: "Calculator! Why not to use a Brain of Steel, who never be tired." All the best, Jaakko Suominen, professor of digital culture, University of Turku, Finland http://www.tuug.fi/~jaakko/
Like others I've really enjoyed this string. In a piece of very scientific research on a cold Sunday afternoon I googled electronic brain and discovered an article from Nov 9, 1946 in the Surrey Comet newspaper, which covers Teddington where the NPL is located. It is discussing Turing's ACE machine under the headline "Electronic Brain to be made at Teddington" as an improvement on ENIAC. A few years ago I was lost when driving near Teddington, and when I stopped to look at a map looked up and saw the blue plaque where Alan Turing lived 1945-1947 before he went to Manchester. On then searching The Times for electronic brain between 1900 and 1950 I came across a speech by Lord Mountbatten, President of the British Institution of Radio Engineers, who on October 30 1946 appeared to use the term 'electronic brain', which was incorporated into the headline. (Lord Mountbatten was very high profile, the Queen's Uncle-in-Law (& cousin) and in WWII was Supreme Allied Commander of SE Asia, Vinegar Joe Stillwell's boss) There were a number of letters protesting the term electronic brain, including one from the Director of the NPL responsible for the ACE who ever so gently blamed Mountbatten. Another protest about the term was from Prof Hartree, Dir of the Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge. On Feb 28 there was a CUP advertisement for Hartree's new book 'Calculating Machines' described as including 'an account of ENIAC, the so-called electronic brain'. Like to have been a fly on the wall when he next met his publisher! I've no idea whether or not Tom set the list up with the ability to accept attachments but if so you will see the result of these searches. kind regards neil Dr Roger Neil Barton Visiting Research Fellow, Institute of Historical Research http://www.uclmail.net/~neil.barton/ ----- Original Message ----- From: James Cortada To: Thomas Haigh Cc: members-bounces@sigcis.org ; members@sigcis.org Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" So much good dialogue has taken place today on this topic that I think we should ask Evan to consolidate all of this into a short article that goes into one of the back sections of the Annals or into an article in some media journal. If that works, there are a bunch of other things we could flush out from time to time using this social networking/wisdom of crowds approach. We might even expand Evan's assignment by discussing automation next weekend and then the following weekend cybernetics. Jim (James) W. Cortada
Another potential source for reflections is the popular press from the late 1940s, through which the news of EDSAC, ENIAC etc percolated around. The Renwick papers held at Cambridge Uni Library (engineer who worked with Wilkes on the EDSAC mercury delay lines) contain a few papers published in such press that display the same kind of 'brain' comments, expanding interestingly on how right/wrong it is to attribute 'brain' characteristics to a machine, howeve sophisticated and engineeringly impressive. I never found, though, the use of 'giant brain' as an expression in these. The emphasis seems more on the programming possibility, electronics, and marvels of speed the combination allows. Berkeley might have a first in creating the term. Best, Sandra Renwick Papers - CSAC 84.2.82 – Box 1-File D3: Series of Press Cuttings and Photographs from 1940s—1950s Daily mail, October 1947 – A Don Builds A Memory. 4ft. tubes in his ‘brain’ – Anonymous Cambridge Daily News, 3rd October 1947– “Brain” will know the answers to 1,000 questions a minute – Anonymous Discovery , February 1948 – Cambridge’s High-Speed Calculator – Anonymous, p.40 Daily Telegraph, 17.6.49 – New “Brain” Store Orders. Calculations At 15,000 A Minute – Anonymous The Star, 5.7.49 – “Merrick Winn Sees A Room Full of Astonishing Gadgets … It’s A MECHANICAL BRAIN” – Winn, M. The Spectator, 15.7.49 – Nicolson, H. - Marginal Comment – p.76 ---------------- From: James Cortada <jwcorta@us.ibm.com> To: Thomas Haigh <thaigh@computer.org> Cc: members-bounces@sigcis.org; members@sigcis.org Sent: Saturday, 31 January, 2009 23:21:37 Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" So much good dialogue has taken place today on this topic that I think we should ask Evan to consolidate all of this into a short article that goes into one of the back sections of the Annals or into an article in some media journal. If that works, there are a bunch of other things we could flush out from time to time using this social networking/wisdom of crowds approach. We might even expand Evan's assignment by discussing automation next weekend and then the following weekend cybernetics. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462 Thomas Haigh ---01/31/2009 02:50:21 PM---The title has great retro kitsch value, but I believe that "Giant Brains" popularized a more important phrase. Berkeley defined From: Thomas Haigh <thaigh@computer.org> To: members@sigcis.org Date: 01/31/09 02:50 PM Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" ________________________________ The title has great retro kitsch value, but I believe that "Giant Brains" popularized a more important phrase. Berkeley defined the computer as "a machine that handles information, transfers information from one part of the machine to another and has a flexible control over the sequence of its operation." This makes it special because transfers information automatically, doesn't need minute to minute instructions -this makes "a deep break with the past" even though "machines that handle information have existed for more than 200 years." So he situates the as one in a long lineof information handling machines going back to languages as "systems for handling information", nerve cells, cave paintings, books, etc as "physical equipment for handling information." That's the context in which it makes sense to call a computer a giant brain, not because both think but because both handle information. While Shannon's information theory had obvious relevance for people building digital computers, this is the earliest (1949) expansive framing I'm aware of for the computer as a universal information processing machine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows of an earlier one, but it's surely the earliest one to reach a mass general audience. Tom 2009/1/31 Allan Olley <allan.olley@utoronto.ca> Hey, Just did a quick check on JSTOR on the Science Service's The Science News-letter (what I assume Bernadette Longo refered to). The term "mechanical brain" is used about three times in the 1930s for some kind of calculator or control system. First instance in 1930 for a planetarium's control system (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 17, No. 475 (May 17, 1930), pp. 312-313) and then in 1932 to describe Bush's Differential Analyzer (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 22, No. 606 (Nov. 19, 1932), p. 320), which is also called a mathematical brain. The phrase "electronic 'brain'" is used to refer to a computing gunsight in 1944 (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 46, No. 21 (Nov. 18, 1944), p. 326) Note that for example the press release by Harvard in 1944 for the IBM ASCC/Harvard Mark I refers to it as a "super-brain." (p. 124, Cohen, _Howard Aiken: Portrait of a computer pioneer_) So I think it is safe to say that the use of the word/analogy of brain to describe a computer was popular before Berkeley. The exact phrase "giant brain" is apparently not used anywhere in JSTOR's database (which is a number of scientific and other journals) before 1950 to describe machines... I did a quick check of the NY Times and found an article from 1947 with the following title "NEW GIANT 'BRAIN' DOES WIZARD WORK; Bureau of Standards Says It Can Solve Vast Mathematical Problems in a Few Minutes" August 25, 1947, Monday Page 19, 602 words. About the Bureau of Standards plans for machines,"giant "electronic brains"" refered to, so the title may be an abreviation of that. It is based off a U.P. newswire. However this is the only pre-1949 reference, so it hardly suggests it is a popular description. Refering to early computers as giant brains is a natural way to describe them given their size and previous practice and so the phrase was probably coined more than once (like many computer algorithms that have been invented multiple times). I suspect if you did a search of all searchable newspapers and other available sources you would find a few more instances of the phrase "giant brain" however it does seem to me like Berkeley popularized the description. -- Yours Truly, Allan Olley http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/ On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Bernadette Longo wrote:
Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette Longo
James Cortada wrote:
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right.
Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for po
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net>
To: <members@sigcis.org>
Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
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_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members__________________________________... This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
In some of those 1930 Science Newsletter articles, Vannevar Bush's analog differential analyzer was referred to as a "giant brain." The intent of that federally supported publication was to popularize scientific information. (The archives of this historic journal are located at the Smithsonian Archives.) So in some senses, Berkeley's book title was in that earlier tradition of science popularizers claiming that a mechanical brain (another descriptive phrase often used for these early computers) could handle information like a brain -- or that human brains handle information like mechanical machines. As much as an argument for the machine being like the human brain, this could be understood as an argument about the human brain being like a machine. Another piece of information on the term "automation," Berkeley also edited and published what is probably the first professional journal for computer developers -- _Computers and Automation_ -- from 1950-1973, which seems to make him one of the early adopters and popularizers of this term, too...Bernadette Longo Thomas Haigh wrote:
The title has great retro kitsch value, but I believe that "Giant Brains" popularized a more important phrase. Berkeley defined the computer as "a machine that handles information, transfers information from one part of the machine to another and has a flexible control over the sequence of its operation." This makes it special because transfers information automatically, doesn't need minute to minute instructions -this makes "a deep break with the past" even though "machines that handle information have existed for more than 200 years." So he situates the as one in a long lineof information handling machines going back to languages as "systems for handling information", nerve cells, cave paintings, books, etc as "physical equipment for handling information." That's the context in which it makes sense to call a computer a giant brain, not because both think but because both handle information.
While Shannon's information theory had obvious relevance for people building digital computers, this is the earliest (1949) expansive framing I'm aware of for the computer as a universal information processing machine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows of an earlier one, but it's surely the earliest one to reach a mass general audience.
Tom
2009/1/31 Allan Olley <allan.olley@utoronto.ca <mailto:allan.olley@utoronto.ca>>
Hey, Just did a quick check on JSTOR on the Science Service's The Science News-letter (what I assume Bernadette Longo refered to). The term "mechanical brain" is used about three times in the 1930s for some kind of calculator or control system. First instance in 1930 for a planetarium's control system (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 17, No. 475 (May 17, 1930), pp. 312-313) and then in 1932 to describe Bush's Differential Analyzer (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 22, No. 606 (Nov. 19, 1932), p. 320), which is also called a mathematical brain. The phrase "electronic 'brain'" is used to refer to a computing gunsight in 1944 (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 46, No. 21 (Nov. 18, 1944), p. 326) Note that for example the press release by Harvard in 1944 for the IBM ASCC/Harvard Mark I refers to it as a "super-brain." (p. 124, Cohen, _Howard Aiken: Portrait of a computer pioneer_) So I think it is safe to say that the use of the word/analogy of brain to describe a computer was popular before Berkeley. The exact phrase "giant brain" is apparently not used anywhere in JSTOR's database (which is a number of scientific and other journals) before 1950 to describe machines... I did a quick check of the NY Times and found an article from 1947 with the following title "NEW GIANT 'BRAIN' DOES WIZARD WORK; Bureau of Standards Says It Can Solve Vast Mathematical Problems in a Few Minutes" August 25, 1947, Monday Page 19, 602 words. About the Bureau of Standards plans for machines,"giant "electronic brains"" refered to, so the title may be an abreviation of that. It is based off a U.P. newswire. However this is the only pre-1949 reference, so it hardly suggests it is a popular description. Refering to early computers as giant brains is a natural way to describe them given their size and previous practice and so the phrase was probably coined more than once (like many computer algorithms that have been invented multiple times). I suspect if you did a search of all searchable newspapers and other available sources you would find a few more instances of the phrase "giant brain" however it does seem to me like Berkeley popularized the description. -- Yours Truly, Allan Olley
http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Bernadette Longo wrote:
> Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by > the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of > earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette > Longo > > James Cortada wrote: >> >> He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the >> first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least >> the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on >> what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book >> editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still >> have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late >> 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold >> did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in >> the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and >> his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only >> really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His >> experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the >> title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, >> marketing people, and others until you get it right. >> >> Jim (James) W. Cortada >> IBM Institute for Business Value >> 3001 West Beltline Highway >> Madison, WI 53713 USA >> jwcorta@us.ibm.com <mailto:jwcorta@us.ibm.com> >> 608-270-4462 >> >> Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 >> AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan >> Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" >> already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or >> should he get credit for po >> >> >> From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net <mailto:evan@snarc.net>> >> >> To: <members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>> >> >> Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM >> >> Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used >> it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? >> I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes >> to the right source._______________________________________________ >> This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>, the email discussion >> list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at >> http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your >> subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>, the email discussion >> list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at >> http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your >> subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members > > _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
I agree Tom. However, there is an important nuance in the whole idea of handling information. During the big iron era, computers were information handling machines; but a common perception the information was numerical. Computers were highly complex difference engines. The idea that computers could automate textual information seems to emerge later. John Laprise Doctoral Candidate Media, Technology, and Society Program School of Communication Northwestern University From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Haigh Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 2:50 PM To: Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains" The title has great retro kitsch value, but I believe that "Giant Brains" popularized a more important phrase. Berkeley defined the computer as "a machine that handles information, transfers information from one part of the machine to another and has a flexible control over the sequence of its operation." This makes it special because transfers information automatically, doesn't need minute to minute instructions -this makes "a deep break with the past" even though "machines that handle information have existed for more than 200 years." So he situates the as one in a long lineof information handling machines going back to languages as "systems for handling information", nerve cells, cave paintings, books, etc as "physical equipment for handling information." That's the context in which it makes sense to call a computer a giant brain, not because both think but because both handle information. While Shannon's information theory had obvious relevance for people building digital computers, this is the earliest (1949) expansive framing I'm aware of for the computer as a universal information processing machine. I'd be interested to hear if anyone knows of an earlier one, but it's surely the earliest one to reach a mass general audience. Tom 2009/1/31 Allan Olley <allan.olley@utoronto.ca> Hey, Just did a quick check on JSTOR on the Science Service's The Science News-letter (what I assume Bernadette Longo refered to). The term "mechanical brain" is used about three times in the 1930s for some kind of calculator or control system. First instance in 1930 for a planetarium's control system (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 17, No. 475 (May 17, 1930), pp. 312-313) and then in 1932 to describe Bush's Differential Analyzer (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 22, No. 606 (Nov. 19, 1932), p. 320), which is also called a mathematical brain. The phrase "electronic 'brain'" is used to refer to a computing gunsight in 1944 (The Science News-Letter, Vol. 46, No. 21 (Nov. 18, 1944), p. 326) Note that for example the press release by Harvard in 1944 for the IBM ASCC/Harvard Mark I refers to it as a "super-brain." (p. 124, Cohen, _Howard Aiken: Portrait of a computer pioneer_) So I think it is safe to say that the use of the word/analogy of brain to describe a computer was popular before Berkeley. The exact phrase "giant brain" is apparently not used anywhere in JSTOR's database (which is a number of scientific and other journals) before 1950 to describe machines... I did a quick check of the NY Times and found an article from 1947 with the following title "NEW GIANT 'BRAIN' DOES WIZARD WORK; Bureau of Standards Says It Can Solve Vast Mathematical Problems in a Few Minutes" August 25, 1947, Monday Page 19, 602 words. About the Bureau of Standards plans for machines,"giant "electronic brains"" refered to, so the title may be an abreviation of that. It is based off a U.P. newswire. However this is the only pre-1949 reference, so it hardly suggests it is a popular description. Refering to early computers as giant brains is a natural way to describe them given their size and previous practice and so the phrase was probably coined more than once (like many computer algorithms that have been invented multiple times). I suspect if you did a search of all searchable newspapers and other available sources you would find a few more instances of the phrase "giant brain" however it does seem to me like Berkeley popularized the description. -- Yours Truly, Allan Olley http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/ On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Bernadette Longo wrote:
Hi all -- The term "giant brains" had also been used numerous times by the Science Service Newsletter editor during the 1930s in terms of earlier mechanical calculators. Ditto to Jim's comments...Bernadette Longo
James Cortada wrote:
He popularized the term, although it is not clear to me that he was the first to utter it. The concept had been floating around since at least the mid-1930s in the form of mechanically augmenting thinking. based on what I read in the 1930s and 1940s, I would give him--or his book editor--credit for the phrase. This is similar to the problem we still have with the word automation. It was in use at Ford Motors in the late 1940s but nobody knew about it or used the phrase until John Diebold did when he used it as the title for a best selling book published in the early 1950s. He told me that he had gotten the word from Ford and his editor encouraged him to use in the title of the book. The only really clever book title he ever came up with for his 7+ books. His experience is what taught me to spend a lot of time thinking about the title of any book you publish, fighting and dialoguing with editors, marketing people, and others until you get it right.
Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 3001 West Beltline Highway Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Inactive hide details for "Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund B"Evan Koblentz" ---01/31/2009 04:20:10 AM---Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for po
From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@snarc.net>
To: <members@sigcis.org>
Date: 01/31/09 04:20 AM
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] Another question - "Giant Brains"
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was the term "Giant Brains" already popular when Edmund Berkeley used it in his 1949 book title, or should he get credit for popularizing it? I'm mentioning the term in a footnote and want to be sure credit goes to the right source._______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Has anyone published, or put together, a substantial bibliography of books and articles concerning ICT in Europe? I am having difficulty assembling a good bibliographic list for my own work. The British story seems to have made it into many bibliographies, but publications from the Continent are more difficult to find on lists. Second, a question for our European colleagues: What are some good online bookdealers to go to for old and new books related to the history of ICT? I would especially like to know of those that carry books from multiple European countries. Cheers! Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Dear Jim, here (below) is the reference to the 2 volume bibliography by the Dutch "Studiecentrum" I showed you before. It virtually coincided with the center's library, which has since been lost. Still this institute was very active in collecting literature in all languages and may well have been among the better informed in Europe. Kind regards, Gerard International computer bibliography : a guide to books on the use, application and effect of computers in scientific, commercial, industrial and social environments / [vol. 2.] ed. [by] H. J. van der Aa Place of publ., Publisher, Publication year: Amsterdam, Nederlands Studiecentrum voor Informatica, 1968-1971 ________________________________ Van: members-bounces@sigcis.org namens James Cortada Verzonden: zo 7-6-2009 18:30 Aan: Thomas Haigh CC: members-bounces@sigcis.org; members@sigcis.org Onderwerp: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] European ICT Bibliography Has anyone published, or put together, a substantial bibliography of books and articles concerning ICT in Europe? I am having difficulty assembling a good bibliographic list for my own work. The British story seems to have made it into many bibliographies, but publications from the Continent are more difficult to find on lists. Second, a question for our European colleagues: What are some good online bookdealers to go to for old and new books related to the history of ICT? I would especially like to know of those that carry books from multiple European countries. Cheers! Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Dear Jim, I would not know, never saw the synopsis bibliography for sale, but libraries may also hold the abstract journal it was based on (a reference journal with three lives): Literature on automation <http://opc.uva.nl:8080/DB=1.1/SET=1/TTL=3/CLK?IKT=5&TRM=automation> = ISSN 0377-1067 (1961-1968 published by Dutch PTT) New literature on automation <http://opc.uva.nl:8080/DB=1.1/SET=1/TTL=3/CLK?IKT=5&TRM=automation> = ISSN 0028-6095 (1968-1983 published by SSAA/NOVI Studiecentrum ) Excerpta informatica : an abstract journal of recent literature on automation <http://opc.uva.nl:8080/DB=1.1/SET=1/TTL=3/CLK?IKT=5&TRM=automation> = ISSN 0169-5509 (1985-1998 published by Tilburg University Press) Kind regards, Gerard Alberts -------------- Excellent. If I wanted to buy a copy of this who should I go to in Europe to find this? Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada ________________________________ Dear Jim, here (below) is the reference to the 2 volume bibliography by the Dutch "Studiecentrum" I showed you before. It virtually coincided with the center's library, which has since been lost. Still this institute was very active in collecting literature in all languages and may well have been among the better informed in Europe. Kind regards, Gerard International computer bibliography : a guide to books on the use, application and effect of computers in scientific, commercial, industrial and social environments Place of publ., Publisher, Publication year: Amsterdam, Nederlands Studiecentrum voor Informatica, 1968-1971 ________________________________ From: members-bounces@sigcis.org on behalf of James Cortada Sent: Sun 7-6-2009 18:30 To: Thomas Haigh Cc: members-bounces@sigcis.org; members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] European ICT Bibliography Has anyone published, or put together, a substantial bibliography of books and articles concerning ICT in Europe? I am having difficulty assembling a good bibliographic list for my own work. The British story seems to have made it into many bibliographies, but publications from the Continent are more difficult to find on lists. Second, a question for our European colleagues: What are some good online bookdealers to go to for old and new books related to the history of ICT? I would especially like to know of those that carry books from multiple European countries. Cheers! Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Jim, my answer to your original question would be that no-one has done that, covered the whole of Europe (in any of its possible, different compilation of countries). Sorry. I would say it's a ridiculously difficult task anyway but could be done as a well-coordinated international effort. The present Softeu-project won't have time to do it but it could help show the right way. (For Softeu, see http://www.esf.org/activities/eurocores/programmes/inventing-europe/projects...) For the Nordic or Scandinavian countries the book History of Nordic Computing (2005, and there's a second volume to be published later this year) is a good entry point to the different literatures. It's a collection of academic articles and source articles by the actors themselves. See http://www.springerlink.com/content/t74p87474518/ or Google books. In some cases 'where to buy them' is another complex question to answer. Bookfinder.com seems to find many of them quite nice. But: Gerard's "International computer bibliography" isn't there and many others (particularly of less central countries, so to speak, like pretty much all of the Nordic ones) are not there. We need to find and search national bookstores and hope they have them and that they deliver abroad -- I have had difficulties ordering sort of rare history books from German web-stores. In this sense, (too), Europe is a mess, or doesn't really exist as one category. Best, Petri
Dear Jim,
I would not know, never saw the synopsis bibliography for sale, but libraries may also hold the abstract journal it was based on (a reference journal with three lives):
Literature on automation < = ISSN 0377-1067 (1961-1968 published by Dutch PTT)
New literature on automation < = ISSN 0028-6095 (1968-1983 published by SSAA/NOVI Studiecentrum )
Excerpta informatica : an abstract journal of recent literature on automation < = ISSN 0169-5509 (1985-1998 published by Tilburg University Press)
Kind regards,
Gerard Alberts
--------------
Excellent. If I wanted to buy a copy of this who should I go to in Europe to find this?
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada
________________________________
Dear Jim, here (below) is the reference to the 2 volume bibliography by the Dutch "Studiecentrum" I showed you before. It virtually coincided with the center's library, which has since been lost. Still this institute was very active in collecting literature in all languages and may well have been among the better informed in Europe. Kind regards, Gerard
International computer bibliography : a guide to books on the use, application and effect of computers in scientific, commercial, industrial and social environments Place of publ., Publisher, Publication year: Amsterdam, Nederlands Studiecentrum voor Informatica, 1968-1971
________________________________
From: members-bounces@sigcis.org on behalf of James Cortada Sent: Sun 7-6-2009 18:30 To: Thomas Haigh Cc: members-bounces@sigcis.org; members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] European ICT Bibliography
Has anyone published, or put together, a substantial bibliography of books and articles concerning ICT in Europe? I am having difficulty assembling a good bibliographic list for my own work. The British story seems to have made it into many bibliographies, but publications from the Continent are more difficult to find on lists.
Second, a question for our European colleagues: What are some good online bookdealers to go to for old and new books related to the history of ICT? I would especially like to know of those that carry books from multiple European countries.
Cheers!
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Petri, I agree with your comments and you and I have had the same experience in finding materials. Ultimately, I am more interested in collecting the materials than simply having a nice bibliography. As a community we all share the same problem so it might make sense at some point for the entire sigcis membership to launch a coordinated assault on the problem, select one or more university libraries in Europe--not the US--and build the collection, methodically and completely. By the way, we have not done that in the US, although CBI is moving aggressively to start that process. We really need a half dozen such collections around the world. Perhaps when the several research projects underway in Europe are completed we can go to the EU and propose a serious project. I like collections of 30,000-100,000 publications on a subject; justifies the price of an airplane ticket to see them. :--)) Cheers, Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462 From: Petri Paju <petpaju@utu.fi> To: "Alberts, G." <G.Alberts@uva.nl> Cc: James Cortada/Madison/IBM@IBMUS, members@sigcis.org Date: 06/08/09 01:48 PM Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] European ICT Bibliography Jim, my answer to your original question would be that no-one has done that, covered the whole of Europe (in any of its possible, different compilation of countries). Sorry. I would say it's a ridiculously difficult task anyway but could be done as a well-coordinated international effort. The present Softeu-project won't have time to do it but it could help show the right way. (For Softeu, see http://www.esf.org/activities/eurocores/programmes/inventing-europe/projects... ) For the Nordic or Scandinavian countries the book History of Nordic Computing (2005, and there's a second volume to be published later this year) is a good entry point to the different literatures. It's a collection of academic articles and source articles by the actors themselves. See http://www.springerlink.com/content/t74p87474518/ or Google books. In some cases 'where to buy them' is another complex question to answer. Bookfinder.com seems to find many of them quite nice. But: Gerard's "International computer bibliography" isn't there and many others (particularly of less central countries, so to speak, like pretty much all of the Nordic ones) are not there. We need to find and search national bookstores and hope they have them and that they deliver abroad -- I have had difficulties ordering sort of rare history books from German web-stores. In this sense, (too), Europe is a mess, or doesn't really exist as one category. Best, Petri
Dear Jim,
I would not know, never saw the synopsis bibliography for sale, but libraries may also hold the abstract journal it was based on (a reference journal with three lives):
Literature on automation < = ISSN 0377-1067 (1961-1968 published by Dutch PTT)
New literature on automation < = ISSN 0028-6095 (1968-1983 published by SSAA/NOVI Studiecentrum )
Excerpta informatica : an abstract journal of recent literature on automation < = ISSN 0169-5509 (1985-1998 published by Tilburg University Press)
Kind regards,
Gerard Alberts
--------------
Excellent. If I wanted to buy a copy of this who should I go to in Europe to find this?
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada
________________________________
Dear Jim, here (below) is the reference to the 2 volume bibliography by the Dutch "Studiecentrum" I showed you before. It virtually coincided with the center's library, which has since been lost. Still this institute was very active in collecting literature in all languages and may well have been among the better informed in Europe. Kind regards, Gerard
International computer bibliography : a guide to books on the use, application and effect of computers in scientific, commercial, industrial and social environments Place of publ., Publisher, Publication year: Amsterdam, Nederlands Studiecentrum voor Informatica, 1968-1971
________________________________
From: members-bounces@sigcis.org on behalf of James Cortada Sent: Sun 7-6-2009 18:30 To: Thomas Haigh Cc: members-bounces@sigcis.org; members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] European ICT Bibliography
Has anyone published, or put together, a substantial bibliography of books and articles concerning ICT in Europe? I am having difficulty assembling a good bibliographic list for my own work. The British story seems to have made it into many bibliographies, but publications from the Continent are more difficult to find on lists.
Second, a question for our European colleagues: What are some good online bookdealers to go to for old and new books related to the history of ICT? I would especially like to know of those that carry books from multiple European countries.
Cheers!
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Dear Jim, dear colleagues you might be interested in a German bibliography on computing funded by the German Science Foundation. From 1954 to 1966 the DFG published 73 reports on the "new" literature on computing (from all over the world). The idea behind this project was, that the DFG wanted to "make up ground" in the computing field and tried to be informed about the world wide progress in this field. (I am writing about this project in my new book on schientific computing in Germany.) The number of entrys in these report changed over the years, but it seems to me that the mean number of entries in a report is 200 to 400. Unfortunately these reports are relatively rare (even in German libraries) and I have never seen a copy on sale. Kind regards Ulf Hashagen
Dear Jim,
I would not know, never saw the synopsis bibliography for sale, but libraries may also hold the abstract journal it was based on (a reference journal with three lives):
Literature on automation <http://opc.uva.nl:8080/DB=1.1/SET=1/TTL=3/CLK?IKT=5&TRM=automation> = ISSN 0377-1067 (1961-1968 published by Dutch PTT)
New literature on automation <http://opc.uva.nl:8080/DB=1.1/SET=1/TTL=3/CLK?IKT=5&TRM=automation> = ISSN 0028-6095 (1968-1983 published by SSAA/NOVI Studiecentrum )
Excerpta informatica : an abstract journal of recent literature on automation <http://opc.uva.nl:8080/DB=1.1/SET=1/TTL=3/CLK?IKT=5&TRM=automation> = ISSN 0169-5509 (1985-1998 published by Tilburg University Press)
Kind regards,
Gerard Alberts
--------------
Excellent. If I wanted to buy a copy of this who should I go to in Europe to find this?
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada
________________________________
Dear Jim, here (below) is the reference to the 2 volume bibliography by the Dutch "Studiecentrum" I showed you before. It virtually coincided with the center's library, which has since been lost. Still this institute was very active in collecting literature in all languages and may well have been among the better informed in Europe. Kind regards, Gerard
International computer bibliography : a guide to books on the use, application and effect of computers in scientific, commercial, industrial and social environments Place of publ., Publisher, Publication year: Amsterdam, Nederlands Studiecentrum voor Informatica, 1968-1971
________________________________
From: members-bounces@sigcis.org on behalf of James Cortada Sent: Sun 7-6-2009 18:30 To: Thomas Haigh Cc: members-bounces@sigcis.org; members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] European ICT Bibliography
Has anyone published, or put together, a substantial bibliography of books and articles concerning ICT in Europe? I am having difficulty assembling a good bibliographic list for my own work. The British story seems to have made it into many bibliographies, but publications from the Continent are more difficult to find on lists.
Second, a question for our European colleagues: What are some good online bookdealers to go to for old and new books related to the history of ICT? I would especially like to know of those that carry books from multiple European countries.
Cheers!
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Over the past 2 years I have been acquiring books and other publications concerning the history of ICT from around the world, not just about the USA, GB, and Japan as many of us have already done. And in the process have had enormous difficulty in finding materials for all the usual reasons: lack of bibliographies, lack of ISBN numbers, ignorance about which book dealers to go to etc. When I find materials, it is often by accident--clearly not a good way to gather materials. It seems that every time I go to a new country on business, I discover materials that are not listed in the normal places; recently while in Switzerland, I came across a book on the history of IT in Swiss railroads, another on Swiss banking, and heard of a book being published later this year on the history of Swiss ICT. I would like to ask my colleagues if we each could share with everyone else the names, addresses, and Internet location of the book stores in your country that you find the most reliable for purchasing old and new materials on the history of ICT. I would be happy with one per country where, for example, if I wanted all the key works on Finish or Polish computing I could reach out to a book dealer, knowing that he or she would find most if not all the materials. One per country would be fantastic. And if we could collect enough names, perhaps we could find a place to keep the list, such as at the CBI website. All of Europe, Latin America and Asia need to be covered, regardless in what languages publications appear. As an example of the problem, we all are familiar with Simon Nora and Alain Minc's 1978 report to the French Government on ICT; the one volume was translated into English by MIT, and it also appeared in Spanish and German. But I could not find the full set of 5 volumes that the French government published originally here in the US or in by chance visiting book shops in Paris until one day by accident I found the full set and in reading that set, I uncovered a considerable amount of useful information about ICT in countries not discussed in the one volume summary that everyone has seen. These kinds of materials have to be rescued, and used. I feel a sense of urgency about this because I am now focusing on the global history of ICT and find that the American university libraries are missing a great many items and they are not showing up in the usual Internet websites, such as abebooks.com, Alibris, etc. in sufficient amounts. So I have to build my own collection. Furthermore, I would like to build up a nice collection that, when I am finished with my research, I can donate to CBI., Thanks in advance for your help to me and to each other, Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
Hello All, As Jim said, Japanese material would not be rare enough, there is a web book store in which many small book stores are participated. You should use this site using Japanese, but it may be of your help: http://www.kosho.or.jp/ Its title is Nihon-no-Furuhon-ya, meaning Japanese Used Book Dealers. If other Japanese researchers on the list have another idea, please make another recommendation. I am happy to discuss with you on this matter to decide which is the best one to offer for Jim, because he needs one per each country. Chigusa Kita 2009/9/29 James Cortada <jwcorta@us.ibm.com>:
Over the past 2 years I have been acquiring books and other publications concerning the history of ICT from around the world, not just about the USA, GB, and Japan as many of us have already done. And in the process have had enormous difficulty in finding materials for all the usual reasons: lack of bibliographies, lack of ISBN numbers, ignorance about which book dealers to go to etc. When I find materials, it is often by accident--clearly not a good way to gather materials. It seems that every time I go to a new country on business, I discover materials that are not listed in the normal places; recently while in Switzerland, I came across a book on the history of IT in Swiss railroads, another on Swiss banking, and heard of a book being published later this year on the history of Swiss ICT.
I would like to ask my colleagues if we each could share with everyone else the names, addresses, and Internet location of the book stores in your country that you find the most reliable for purchasing old and new materials on the history of ICT. I would be happy with one per country where, for example, if I wanted all the key works on Finish or Polish computing I could reach out to a book dealer, knowing that he or she would find most if not all the materials. One per country would be fantastic. And if we could collect enough names, perhaps we could find a place to keep the list, such as at the CBI website. All of Europe, Latin America and Asia need to be covered, regardless in what languages publications appear.
As an example of the problem, we all are familiar with Simon Nora and Alain Minc's 1978 report to the French Government on ICT; the one volume was translated into English by MIT, and it also appeared in Spanish and German. But I could not find the full set of 5 volumes that the French government published originally here in the US or in by chance visiting book shops in Paris until one day by accident I found the full set and in reading that set, I uncovered a considerable amount of useful information about ICT in countries not discussed in the one volume summary that everyone has seen. These kinds of materials have to be rescued, and used.
I feel a sense of urgency about this because I am now focusing on the global history of ICT and find that the American university libraries are missing a great many items and they are not showing up in the usual Internet websites, such as abebooks.com, Alibris, etc. in sufficient amounts. So I have to build my own collection. Furthermore, I would like to build up a nice collection that, when I am finished with my research, I can donate to CBI.
Thanks in advance for your help to me and to each other,
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Hi James, members, You'll need to be quick at remainder bookstores. Your best bet might be charity bookshops such as Oxfam in the UK... My own 'Artifacts: an archaeologist's year in Silicon Valley' (MIT Press 2001/2002) was remaindered quite early on because of slow sales. Now retro tech is the next-big-thing in the UK, and I'm talking about it again, but when I checked with MIT Press what could be used for promotion I discovered they'd pulped what was left in the warehouse. Now that's what I call obselete! It's still in print, tho' .... and I'll keep working that seam! Christine Finn 2009/9/29 Chigusa Kita <chigusa.kita@nifty.ne.jp>
Hello All,
As Jim said, Japanese material would not be rare enough, there is a web book store in which many small book stores are participated.
You should use this site using Japanese, but it may be of your help:
Its title is Nihon-no-Furuhon-ya, meaning Japanese Used Book Dealers. If other Japanese researchers on the list have another idea, please make another recommendation. I am happy to discuss with you on this matter to decide which is the best one to offer for Jim, because he needs one per each country.
Chigusa Kita
Over the past 2 years I have been acquiring books and other publications concerning the history of ICT from around the world, not just about the USA, GB, and Japan as many of us have already done. And in the process have had enormous difficulty in finding materials for all the usual reasons: lack of bibliographies, lack of ISBN numbers, ignorance about which book dealers to go to etc. When I find materials, it is often by accident--clearly not a good way to gather materials. It seems that every time I go to a new country on business, I discover materials that are not listed in the normal
2009/9/29 James Cortada <jwcorta@us.ibm.com>: places;
recently while in Switzerland, I came across a book on the history of IT in Swiss railroads, another on Swiss banking, and heard of a book being published later this year on the history of Swiss ICT.
I would like to ask my colleagues if we each could share with everyone else the names, addresses, and Internet location of the book stores in your country that you find the most reliable for purchasing old and new materials on the history of ICT. I would be happy with one per country where, for example, if I wanted all the key works on Finish or Polish computing I could reach out to a book dealer, knowing that he or she would find most if not all the materials. One per country would be fantastic. And if we could collect enough names, perhaps we could find a place to keep the list, such as at the CBI website. All of Europe, Latin America and Asia need to be covered, regardless in what languages publications appear.
As an example of the problem, we all are familiar with Simon Nora and Alain Minc's 1978 report to the French Government on ICT; the one volume was translated into English by MIT, and it also appeared in Spanish and German. But I could not find the full set of 5 volumes that the French government published originally here in the US or in by chance visiting book shops in Paris until one day by accident I found the full set and in reading that set, I uncovered a considerable amount of useful information about ICT in countries not discussed in the one volume summary that everyone has seen. These kinds of materials have to be rescued, and used.
I feel a sense of urgency about this because I am now focusing on the global history of ICT and find that the American university libraries are missing a great many items and they are not showing up in the usual Internet websites, such as abebooks.com, Alibris, etc. in sufficient amounts. So I have to build my own collection. Furthermore, I would like to build up a nice collection that, when I am finished with my research, I can donate to CBI.
Thanks in advance for your help to me and to each other,
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
I think I had an idea when responding to Jim on this issue of sharing bookshop information. Unfortunately I don't know any such (one) good bookshop to recommend for Finland (or alas, any other European country). Second hand bookshops (also on the net) might have something, but usually they don't (in Finland). Bookfinder.com is handy (first aid) for the big language & cultural areas in Europe. But there's a second alternative: The public university libraries are by far the best sources and they loan books or deliver copies for a fee. See (for Univ. of Turku) http://kirjasto.utu.fi/en/borrowing/ill/index.html Typically it's a big help to have a native speaker locating the materials from the databases, but it can be done without also. Following this idea, maybe in addition to (or to replace) bookshops we should ask for the best (national/local) databases / univ. libraries (as these differ a lot) to turn to for each country? For example, here's the national bibliography for Finland: https://fennica.linneanet.fi/ There one can find just about anything published here. But the services are not that good and one needs to go to a regular univ. library for copying service: For the IT history materials in Finland, the above mentioned is as good as any: http://kirjasto.utu.fi/en/ Sweden also has a nice national catalog: http://libris.kb.se/ Here's how to get the books: http://librishelp.libris.kb.se/help/getit_eng.jsp?open=getit Best, Petri James Cortada wrote:
Over the past 2 years I have been acquiring books and other publications concerning the history of ICT from around the world, not just about the USA, GB, and Japan as many of us have already done. And in the process have had enormous difficulty in finding materials for all the usual reasons: lack of bibliographies, lack of ISBN numbers, ignorance about which book dealers to go to etc. When I find materials, it is often by accident--clearly not a good way to gather materials. It seems that every time I go to a new country on business, I discover materials that are not listed in the normal places; recently while in Switzerland, I came across a book on the history of IT in Swiss railroads, another on Swiss banking, and heard of a book being published later this year on the history of Swiss ICT.
*I would like to ask my colleagues if we each could share with everyone else the names, addresses, and Internet location of the book stores in your country that you find the most reliable for purchasing old and new materials on the history of ICT.* I would be happy with one per country where, for example, if I wanted all the key works on Finish or Polish computing I could reach out to a book dealer, knowing that he or she would find most if not all the materials. One per country would be fantastic. And if we could collect enough names, perhaps we could find a place to keep the list, such as at the CBI website. All of Europe, Latin America and Asia need to be covered, regardless in what languages publications appear.
As an example of the problem, we all are familiar with Simon Nora and Alain Minc's 1978 report to the French Government on ICT; the one volume was translated into English by MIT, and it also appeared in Spanish and German. But I could not find the full set of 5 volumes that the French government published originally here in the US or in by chance visiting book shops in Paris until one day by accident I found the full set and in reading that set, I uncovered a considerable amount of useful information about ICT in countries not discussed in the one volume summary that everyone has seen. These kinds of materials have to be rescued, and used.
I feel a sense of urgency about this because I am now focusing on the global history of ICT and find that the American university libraries are missing a great many items and they are not showing up in the usual Internet websites, such as abebooks.com, Alibris, etc. in sufficient amounts. So I have to build my own collection. Furthermore, I would like to build up a nice collection that, when I am finished with my research, I can donate to CBI.
Thanks in advance for your help to me and to each other,
Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
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_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- Petri Paju, FT, tutkija, Turun yliopisto -- Ph.D. Researcher, Univ. of Turku http://users.utu.fi/petpaju/
Dear Jim In my short experience dealing with Mexico leads me to agree with Petri. Part of the issue is that local production is on a very small scale (even smaller than in Spain). So it is very hard to find things if you miss the first time around. Having said that, I've found "Marcial Pons" in Madrid at delivering stuff (as long as it is in their catalogue): http://www.marcialpons.es/ As for history of computing in Mexico, I think the 'Annals' printed a piece on this failed microcomputer. Tom Haigh and I are working on something (which is currently on his lap!). The only item I am aware of which is of some value is Cantarell, A. and Gonzalez, M. (2002) Historia de la computacion en Mexico (three volumes), Mexico DF: Hobbiton Ediciones SA If you then google "historia de la computacion en mexico" you get a number of websites at the National University and the Polytecnic. This is where it seems some body of knowledge is building up. As for university catalogues: (Public) Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México +catálogo general www.dgbiblio.unam.mx/ +Biblioteca Nacional de México http://132.248.77.3:8991/F +Biblioteca de las Americas http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/portal/bnm/pcuartonivel.jsp?nomportal=bnm&conten=catobras Instituto Politécnico Nacional, http://azul.bnct.ipn.mx/ (Private) Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México, http://hammurabi.itam.mx/F/-/?func=bor-info Universidad Iberoamericana, http://www.bib.uia.mx/sitio/ Others include: Universidad Panamericana, Universidad Anáhuac, Universidad Anáhuac del Sur, Universidad Metropolitana, and Mexico City and Monterrey campii of the Instituto Tecnológico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey.
Any body know where and what happened to this Italian website on the history of Italian computing? http://www.area.pi.cnr.it/virmuseum. It seems to have disappeared. Has it got a new Web address? I tried writing to the authors of the 1999 Annals article on early Italian computing about it since they cited the site but the e-mail did not go through. If this does not exist but someone knows of another that has material on Italian computing, share with everyone. I already cleaned out the Banco D'Italia's web site which only had three articles of a quasi-historical nature. Thanks in advance for your help. Dr. Jim (James) W. Cortada IBM Institute for Business Value 2917 Irvington Way Madison, WI 53713 USA jwcorta@us.ibm.com 608-270-4462
participants (17)
-
Alberts, G. -
Allan Olley -
Aristotle Tympas -
Bernadette Longo -
Bernardo Batiz-Lazo -
Chigusa Kita -
Christine Finn -
Evan Koblentz -
hemmendd＠union.edu -
Jaakko Suominen -
James Cortada -
John Laprise -
Petri Paju -
Roger Neil Barton -
Sandra Mols -
Thomas Haigh -
Ulf Hashagen