Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn"
Picking back up on a SIGCIS thread from a few years ago, on the history of "unicorn" as an odd term to apply to a tech company, I just saw this amazing headline "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" on Bloomberg.com. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-sco oter-company-bird-at-1-billion I am going to look for a way to work it into something I write, and perhaps in a few years it will earn its proper place as a distillation of our historic moment not unlike "Peace in Our Time" or "Dewey Defeats Truman." Beyond the whole idea of rival billion-dollar scooter companies, I now can't stop thinking about a bird chasing a unicorn riding a scooter. Or maybe the bird is on a scooter, trying to catch up to a galloping unicorn as it approaches a checkered flag. Or the bird might be hovering over a cauldron, trying to turn itself into a scootering unicorn via a hurriedly cast spell of transformation. There are so many possible readings. I know this is somewhat tangential to list business, but I just couldn't resist sharing it given the growing sense of doom hovering over most other news stories, including the global financial turmoil I visited Bloomberg to check on. Best wishes, Tom
Tom - I see perfect analogies in your bird-scooter-unicorn images for some aspect of technology history that you will discuss with erudition - and hopefully cartoon illustrations!
On May 29, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com> wrote:
Picking back up on a SIGCIS thread from a few years ago, on the history of “unicorn” as an odd term to apply to a tech company, I just saw this amazing headline "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" on Bloomberg.com <http://bloomberg.com/>. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-sco... <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-scooter-company-bird-at-1-billion> I am going to look for a way to work it into something I write, and perhaps in a few years it will earn its proper place as a distillation of our historic moment not unlike “Peace in Our Time” or “Dewey Defeats Truman.”
Beyond the whole idea of rival billion-dollar scooter companies, I now can’t stop thinking about a bird chasing a unicorn riding a scooter. Or maybe the bird is on a scooter, trying to catch up to a galloping unicorn as it approaches a checkered flag. Or the bird might be hovering over a cauldron, trying to turn itself into a scootering unicorn via a hurriedly cast spell of transformation. There are so many possible readings.
I know this is somewhat tangential to list business, but I just couldn’t resist sharing it given the growing sense of doom hovering over most other news stories, including the global financial turmoil I visited Bloomberg to check on.
Best wishes,
Tom
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http://sigcis.org/>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ <http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/> and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org <http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org>
As always, the quest for historical “firsts” is fraught with controversy and depends primarily on choosing definitions. Exhaustive research shows that Bird has already lost out in the race to create the “first scooter unicorn” to an incumbent scooter firm, Razor. Its Razor Jr. Kuties Unicorn Scooter has been around since at last 2014, though Amazon reviews are mixed – one purchaser complained that the head (“the whole reason I bought this scooter”) was missing. Others suggest it has “flimsy plastic and doesn’t handle well.” Value investors may feel that despite these flaws it is still an attractive alternative, at around $40 vs. the $150 million that Bird is looking for in its current round. https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Jr-Kuties-Unicorn-Scooter/dp/B00IF13VDY Tom From: Julie Cohn [mailto:cohnconnor@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:25 PM To: Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com> Cc: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" Tom - I see perfect analogies in your bird-scooter-unicorn images for some aspect of technology history that you will discuss with erudition - and hopefully cartoon illustrations! On May 29, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com <mailto:thomas.haigh@gmail.com> > wrote: Picking back up on a SIGCIS thread from a few years ago, on the history of “unicorn” as an odd term to apply to a tech company, I just saw this amazing headline "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" on <http://bloomberg.com/> Bloomberg.com. <https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-scooter-company-bird-at-1-billion> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-sco... I am going to look for a way to work it into something I write, and perhaps in a few years it will earn its proper place as a distillation of our historic moment not unlike “Peace in Our Time” or “Dewey Defeats Truman.” Beyond the whole idea of rival billion-dollar scooter companies, I now can’t stop thinking about a bird chasing a unicorn riding a scooter. Or maybe the bird is on a scooter, trying to catch up to a galloping unicorn as it approaches a checkered flag. Or the bird might be hovering over a cauldron, trying to turn itself into a scootering unicorn via a hurriedly cast spell of transformation. There are so many possible readings. I know this is somewhat tangential to list business, but I just couldn’t resist sharing it given the growing sense of doom hovering over most other news stories, including the global financial turmoil I visited Bloomberg to check on. Best wishes, Tom _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at <http://sigcis.org/> sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/> http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at <http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org> http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.) Note that Bird, Uber, Lyft, LimeBike, and all these ride-sharing services, with their billion-dollar valuations, could not exist without the use of GPS, supplied by the US Air Force for free. And of course you need a smartphone, which is not free but you pay for it, not Bird. I suspect the software for these services is open-source, and the bikes and scooters are made in Asia at low cost. That explains the “unicorn” valuation right there. When the dockless bikes appeared in DC, people noted that a high percentage of them were stolen or vandalized. That was horrifying to traditional bike owners, who treasure their machines and take care to lock them carefully and bring them inside at night, etc. But for these companies, the bikes are more or less disposable. That’s the world we live in now. Paul Ceruzzi ceruzzip@si.edu<mailto:ceruzzip@si.edu> 202-633-2414 From: Members <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org> On Behalf Of Thomas Haigh Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 7:23 PM To: 'Julie Cohn' <cohnconnor@gmail.com> Cc: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" As always, the quest for historical “firsts” is fraught with controversy and depends primarily on choosing definitions. Exhaustive research shows that Bird has already lost out in the race to create the “first scooter unicorn” to an incumbent scooter firm, Razor. Its Razor Jr. Kuties Unicorn Scooter has been around since at last 2014, though Amazon reviews are mixed – one purchaser complained that the head (“the whole reason I bought this scooter”) was missing. Others suggest it has “flimsy plastic and doesn’t handle well.” Value investors may feel that despite these flaws it is still an attractive alternative, at around $40 vs. the $150 million that Bird is looking for in its current round. [Image result for unicorn scooter] https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Jr-Kuties-Unicorn-Scooter/dp/B00IF13VDY Tom From: Julie Cohn [mailto:cohnconnor@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:25 PM To: Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com<mailto:thomas.haigh@gmail.com>> Cc: members@sigcis.org<mailto:members@sigcis.org> Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" Tom - I see perfect analogies in your bird-scooter-unicorn images for some aspect of technology history that you will discuss with erudition - and hopefully cartoon illustrations! On May 29, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com<mailto:thomas.haigh@gmail.com>> wrote: Picking back up on a SIGCIS thread from a few years ago, on the history of “unicorn” as an odd term to apply to a tech company, I just saw this amazing headline "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" on Bloomberg.com<http://bloomberg.com/>. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-sco... I am going to look for a way to work it into something I write, and perhaps in a few years it will earn its proper place as a distillation of our historic moment not unlike “Peace in Our Time” or “Dewey Defeats Truman.” Beyond the whole idea of rival billion-dollar scooter companies, I now can’t stop thinking about a bird chasing a unicorn riding a scooter. Or maybe the bird is on a scooter, trying to catch up to a galloping unicorn as it approaches a checkered flag. Or the bird might be hovering over a cauldron, trying to turn itself into a scootering unicorn via a hurriedly cast spell of transformation. There are so many possible readings. I know this is somewhat tangential to list business, but I just couldn’t resist sharing it given the growing sense of doom hovering over most other news stories, including the global financial turmoil I visited Bloomberg to check on. Best wishes, Tom _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org<http://sigcis.org/>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
Here’s my prediction for where the scooters will be in short order: https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/03/bike-share-oversupply-in-china-hug... In LA, I watch riders plop them in the middle of sidewalks, drop them in handicapped parking stalls (moved one from there the other day), watch people get buzzed by them as they walk. Let’s build actual infrastructure, not throwaway garbage. --- S a r a h T. R o b e r t s, P h. D. Assistant Professor University of California, Los Angeles Department of Information Studies Graduate School of Education & Information Studies https://is.gseis.ucla.edu/ Blogging periodically at http://illusionofvolition.com
On May 30, 2018, at 06:58, Ceruzzi, Paul <CeruzziP@si.edu> wrote:
These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.)
Note that Bird, Uber, Lyft, LimeBike, and all these ride-sharing services, with their billion-dollar valuations, could not exist without the use of GPS, supplied by the US Air Force for free. And of course you need a smartphone, which is not free but you pay for it, not Bird. I suspect the software for these services is open-source, and the bikes and scooters are made in Asia at low cost. That explains the “unicorn” valuation right there. When the dockless bikes appeared in DC, people noted that a high percentage of them were stolen or vandalized. That was horrifying to traditional bike owners, who treasure their machines and take care to lock them carefully and bring them inside at night, etc. But for these companies, the bikes are more or less disposable. That’s the world we live in now.
Paul Ceruzzi ceruzzip@si.edu 202-633-2414
From: Members <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org> On Behalf Of Thomas Haigh Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 7:23 PM To: 'Julie Cohn' <cohnconnor@gmail.com> Cc: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn"
As always, the quest for historical “firsts” is fraught with controversy and depends primarily on choosing definitions. Exhaustive research shows that Bird has already lost out in the race to create the “first scooter unicorn” to an incumbent scooter firm, Razor. Its Razor Jr. Kuties Unicorn Scooter has been around since at last 2014, though Amazon reviews are mixed – one purchaser complained that the head (“the whole reason I bought this scooter”) was missing. Others suggest it has “flimsy plastic and doesn’t handle well.” Value investors may feel that despite these flaws it is still an attractive alternative, at around $40 vs. the $150 million that Bird is looking for in its current round.
<image001.jpg>
https://www.amazon.com/Razor-Jr-Kuties-Unicorn-Scooter/dp/B00IF13VDY
Tom
From: Julie Cohn [mailto:cohnconnor@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 5:25 PM To: Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com> Cc: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn"
Tom - I see perfect analogies in your bird-scooter-unicorn images for some aspect of technology history that you will discuss with erudition - and hopefully cartoon illustrations!
On May 29, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Thomas Haigh <thomas.haigh@gmail.com> wrote:
Picking back up on a SIGCIS thread from a few years ago, on the history of “unicorn” as an odd term to apply to a tech company, I just saw this amazing headline "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" on Bloomberg.com. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-29/sequoia-said-to-value-sco... I am going to look for a way to work it into something I write, and perhaps in a few years it will earn its proper place as a distillation of our historic moment not unlike “Peace in Our Time” or “Dewey Defeats Truman.”
Beyond the whole idea of rival billion-dollar scooter companies, I now can’t stop thinking about a bird chasing a unicorn riding a scooter. Or maybe the bird is on a scooter, trying to catch up to a galloping unicorn as it approaches a checkered flag. Or the bird might be hovering over a cauldron, trying to turn itself into a scootering unicorn via a hurriedly cast spell of transformation. There are so many possible readings.
I know this is somewhat tangential to list business, but I just couldn’t resist sharing it given the growing sense of doom hovering over most other news stories, including the global financial turmoil I visited Bloomberg to check on.
Best wishes,
Tom
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:59 AM Ceruzzi, Paul <CeruzziP@si.edu> wrote:
These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.)
I too live in D.C. It's not at all clear to me that these dockless scooters and bicycles ought to be part of our transportation mix long-term - what need do they serve that would not be better served by busses and docked bicycles? What are these but a novelty for high-income residents of the urban core, a new way for teenagers to concuss themselves[fn:1], propped up by VC largesse and externalization of social costs (e.g. the obstruction of streets and sidewalks, the proliferation of "gig" employment)? If made to pay these costs - by employing rebalancers at a living wage and maintaining a service level that kept public thoroughfares unobstructed - could these enterprises ever turn a profit? How does their environmental impact compare to alternatives? The Chinese experience, alluded to above, does not inspire confidence. Bikeshare, which should have been public <http://www.atulocal689.org/capital-bikeshare.html>, is at least union <http://www.twulocal100.org/story/twu-notches-another-bike-share-win-washington-dc> . - Bjorn Westergard [fn:1]: I have witnessed two such accidents already.
That photo in the Atlantic is alarming, isn’t it? But I happen to live in Guangzhou, China at the moment, and dockless bikes are doing quite well despite the biased press in the US. Biking is big here already, and I estimate 1/4 to 1/3 of the bikes I see on the roads are bike shares. I like dockless bikes because life is not always symmetrical - if I am meeting friends for a coffee, then a trip to an art gallery, then to dinner, I might need a bike at the start but at the end I want to take a bus. With a OfO or Mobike, I just find a bike using the rangefinder in the app, unlock it, and go where I want to go. I don’t have to go find my bike where I left it. As Paul points out, it’s a good use of GPS. It’s also an example of how China is one of the countries that is far ahead on electronic payments and the sharing economy. As Paul notes, there is a cost of entry - but you don’t need an iPhone to use Mobike or Ofo; a Huawei phone will be fine! The ride itself is 1 RMB (1/6 of a US dollar). There is no time limit that I know of, although the price of the ride goes up the longer you use the bike.. The bikes are not as sturdy as the docked Citibikes in NYC, and I suspect that’s a feature of the dockless paradigm (OfO doesn’t have to charge me $1000 if I fail to dock the bike or the bike is broken). Dockless bikes also get a lot of use, so they do break down. When they do, users can tag the bike as broken and a crew rounds them up for repair or recycling. So, I wouldn’t say (like the Atlantic photo suggests) that dockless bikes are a failed project of a junk economy. They are not a replacement for sustainable infrastructure either, and I read a different article earlier this week that 98% of the world’s electric busses are in China. So they seem to be part of a larger project of making cities livable. Incidentally, riders can use their cell phones to pay the bus fare as well. Chris Leslie On May 31, 2018, at 1:10 AM, Bjorn Westergard <bjornw@gmail.com<mailto:bjornw@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:59 AM Ceruzzi, Paul <CeruzziP@si.edu<mailto:CeruzziP@si.edu>> wrote: These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.) I too live in D.C. It's not at all clear to me that these dockless scooters and bicycles ought to be part of our transportation mix long-term - what need do they serve that would not be better served by busses and docked bicycles? What are these but a novelty for high-income residents of the urban core, a new way for teenagers to concuss themselves[fn:1], propped up by VC largesse and externalization of social costs (e.g. the obstruction of streets and sidewalks, the proliferation of "gig" employment)? If made to pay these costs - by employing rebalancers at a living wage and maintaining a service level that kept public thoroughfares unobstructed - could these enterprises ever turn a profit? How does their environmental impact compare to alternatives? The Chinese experience, alluded to above, does not inspire confidence. Bikeshare, which should have been public<http://www.atulocal689.org/capital-bikeshare.html>, is at least union<http://www.twulocal100.org/story/twu-notches-another-bike-share-win-washington-dc>. - Bjorn Westergard [fn:1]: I have witnessed two such accidents already. _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org<http://sigcis.org>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
Awesome. Dockless bikes, scooters, etc., are not doing well in Los Angeles, where they are strewn everywhere and causing people with mobility issues problems accessing right of way. Among other things. --- S a r a h T. R o b e r t s, P h. D. Assistant Professor University of California, Los Angeles Department of Information Studies Graduate School of Education & Information Studies https://is.gseis.ucla.edu/ Blogging periodically at http://illusionofvolition.com
On May 30, 2018, at 20:56, Chris Leslie <chrisleslienyc@hotmail.com> wrote:
That photo in the Atlantic is alarming, isn’t it? But I happen to live in Guangzhou, China at the moment, and dockless bikes are doing quite well despite the biased press in the US. Biking is big here already, and I estimate 1/4 to 1/3 of the bikes I see on the roads are bike shares.
I like dockless bikes because life is not always symmetrical - if I am meeting friends for a coffee, then a trip to an art gallery, then to dinner, I might need a bike at the start but at the end I want to take a bus. With a OfO or Mobike, I just find a bike using the rangefinder in the app, unlock it, and go where I want to go. I don’t have to go find my bike where I left it.
As Paul points out, it’s a good use of GPS. It’s also an example of how China is one of the countries that is far ahead on electronic payments and the sharing economy. As Paul notes, there is a cost of entry - but you don’t need an iPhone to use Mobike or Ofo; a Huawei phone will be fine! The ride itself is 1 RMB (1/6 of a US dollar). There is no time limit that I know of, although the price of the ride goes up the longer you use the bike..
The bikes are not as sturdy as the docked Citibikes in NYC, and I suspect that’s a feature of the dockless paradigm (OfO doesn’t have to charge me $1000 if I fail to dock the bike or the bike is broken). Dockless bikes also get a lot of use, so they do break down. When they do, users can tag the bike as broken and a crew rounds them up for repair or recycling.
So, I wouldn’t say (like the Atlantic photo suggests) that dockless bikes are a failed project of a junk economy. They are not a replacement for sustainable infrastructure either, and I read a different article earlier this week that 98% of the world’s electric busses are in China. So they seem to be part of a larger project of making cities livable.
Incidentally, riders can use their cell phones to pay the bus fare as well.
Chris Leslie
On May 31, 2018, at 1:10 AM, Bjorn Westergard <bjornw@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:59 AM Ceruzzi, Paul <CeruzziP@si.edu> wrote: These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.)
I too live in D.C.
It's not at all clear to me that these dockless scooters and bicycles ought to be part of our transportation mix long-term - what need do they serve that would not be better served by busses and docked bicycles? What are these but a novelty for high-income residents of the urban core, a new way for teenagers to concuss themselves[fn:1], propped up by VC largesse and externalization of social costs (e.g. the obstruction of streets and sidewalks, the proliferation of "gig" employment)? If made to pay these costs - by employing rebalancers at a living wage and maintaining a service level that kept public thoroughfares unobstructed - could these enterprises ever turn a profit? How does their environmental impact compare to alternatives? The Chinese experience, alluded to above, does not inspire confidence.
Bikeshare, which should have been public, is at least union.
- Bjorn Westergard
[fn:1]: I have witnessed two such accidents already. _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
at the risk of being rude, would the folks invested in this discussion mind terribly if i ask that further discussion of scooters and bikeshares be moved off-list? it seems somewhat off-topic to those of us who joined in order to stay abreast of SIGCIS-relevant events and research...thanks for your understanding... Armando Fox Professor, Computer Science Division Faculty Advisor, UC Berkeley MOOCLab UC Berkeley Campus Equity Advisor 581 Soda Hall MC#1776, Berkeley, CA 94720-1776 +1.510.642.6820 / http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fox <http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fox> Learn to build software free at saas-class.org
On May 30, 2018, at 10:20 PM, Sarah T. Roberts <sarah.roberts@ucla.edu> wrote:
Awesome. Dockless bikes, scooters, etc., are not doing well in Los Angeles, where they are strewn everywhere and causing people with mobility issues problems accessing right of way.
Among other things.
---
S a r a h T. R o b e r t s, P h. D.
Assistant Professor University of California, Los Angeles Department of Information Studies Graduate School of Education & Information Studies https://is.gseis.ucla.edu/ <https://is.gseis.ucla.edu/>
Blogging periodically at http://illusionofvolition.com <http://illusionofvolition.com/>
On May 30, 2018, at 20:56, Chris Leslie <chrisleslienyc@hotmail.com <mailto:chrisleslienyc@hotmail.com>> wrote:
That photo in the Atlantic is alarming, isn’t it? But I happen to live in Guangzhou, China at the moment, and dockless bikes are doing quite well despite the biased press in the US. Biking is big here already, and I estimate 1/4 to 1/3 of the bikes I see on the roads are bike shares.
I like dockless bikes because life is not always symmetrical - if I am meeting friends for a coffee, then a trip to an art gallery, then to dinner, I might need a bike at the start but at the end I want to take a bus. With a OfO or Mobike, I just find a bike using the rangefinder in the app, unlock it, and go where I want to go. I don’t have to go find my bike where I left it.
As Paul points out, it’s a good use of GPS. It’s also an example of how China is one of the countries that is far ahead on electronic payments and the sharing economy. As Paul notes, there is a cost of entry - but you don’t need an iPhone to use Mobike or Ofo; a Huawei phone will be fine! The ride itself is 1 RMB (1/6 of a US dollar). There is no time limit that I know of, although the price of the ride goes up the longer you use the bike..
The bikes are not as sturdy as the docked Citibikes in NYC, and I suspect that’s a feature of the dockless paradigm (OfO doesn’t have to charge me $1000 if I fail to dock the bike or the bike is broken). Dockless bikes also get a lot of use, so they do break down. When they do, users can tag the bike as broken and a crew rounds them up for repair or recycling.
So, I wouldn’t say (like the Atlantic photo suggests) that dockless bikes are a failed project of a junk economy. They are not a replacement for sustainable infrastructure either, and I read a different article earlier this week that 98% of the world’s electric busses are in China. So they seem to be part of a larger project of making cities livable.
Incidentally, riders can use their cell phones to pay the bus fare as well.
Chris Leslie
On May 31, 2018, at 1:10 AM, Bjorn Westergard <bjornw@gmail.com <mailto:bjornw@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:59 AM Ceruzzi, Paul <CeruzziP@si.edu <mailto:CeruzziP@si.edu>> wrote: These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.)
I too live in D.C.
It's not at all clear to me that these dockless scooters and bicycles ought to be part of our transportation mix long-term - what need do they serve that would not be better served by busses and docked bicycles? What are these but a novelty for high-income residents of the urban core, a new way for teenagers to concuss themselves[fn:1], propped up by VC largesse and externalization of social costs (e.g. the obstruction of streets and sidewalks, the proliferation of "gig" employment)? If made to pay these costs - by employing rebalancers at a living wage and maintaining a service level that kept public thoroughfares unobstructed - could these enterprises ever turn a profit? How does their environmental impact compare to alternatives? The Chinese experience, alluded to above, does not inspire confidence.
Bikeshare, which should have been public <http://www.atulocal689.org/capital-bikeshare.html>, is at least union <http://www.twulocal100.org/story/twu-notches-another-bike-share-win-washington-dc>.
- Bjorn Westergard
[fn:1]: I have witnessed two such accidents already. _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http://sigcis.org/>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ <http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/> and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org <http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org>
This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http://sigcis.org/>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ <http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/> and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org <http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org>_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
Just wanted to say, I’m really enjoying this discussion! It seems on-topic to me. Barbara Walker Associate Professor Department of History/308 University of Nevada, Reno Reno, NV 89557 From: Members <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org> on behalf of Armando Fox <fox@cs.berkeley.edu> Date: Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 12:56 PM To: "Sarah T. Roberts" <sarah.roberts@ucla.edu> Cc: "members@sigcis.org" <members@sigcis.org> Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Bloomberg: "Bird Races to Become the First Scooter Unicorn" at the risk of being rude, would the folks invested in this discussion mind terribly if i ask that further discussion of scooters and bikeshares be moved off-list? it seems somewhat off-topic to those of us who joined in order to stay abreast of SIGCIS-relevant events and research...thanks for your understanding... Armando Fox Professor, Computer Science Division Faculty Advisor, UC Berkeley MOOCLab UC Berkeley Campus Equity Advisor 581 Soda Hall MC#1776, Berkeley, CA 94720-1776 +1.510.642.6820 / http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~fox<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http:%2F%2Fwww.cs.berkeley.edu%2F~fox&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=1Y4xqqNHzLpMwwy0Tve7kqYWdRzxn3lOF5K7EGpxYxI%3D&reserved=0> Learn to build software free at saas-class.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsaas-class.org&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=b1laQQ3%2FvbqWeFu%2BKOKKhgbMkF%2BftyGnxjc68aZqIA4%3D&reserved=0> On May 30, 2018, at 10:20 PM, Sarah T. Roberts <sarah.roberts@ucla.edu<mailto:sarah.roberts@ucla.edu>> wrote: Awesome. Dockless bikes, scooters, etc., are not doing well in Los Angeles, where they are strewn everywhere and causing people with mobility issues problems accessing right of way. Among other things. --- S a r a h T. R o b e r t s, P h. D. Assistant Professor University of California, Los Angeles Department of Information Studies Graduate School of Education & Information Studies https://is.gseis.ucla.edu/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fis.gseis.ucla.edu%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=4HUP0%2F%2BmD2PrAfQJsu5VAmHOuAEyzqMEZhhw2%2B7pRKo%3D&reserved=0> Blogging periodically at http://illusionofvolition.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fillusionofvolition.com%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=ZNvVNH0anIu2XpHQ7YGG3DdYUa5%2FuBjnRoX3S3ccCbQ%3D&reserved=0> On May 30, 2018, at 20:56, Chris Leslie <chrisleslienyc@hotmail.com<mailto:chrisleslienyc@hotmail.com>> wrote: That photo in the Atlantic is alarming, isn’t it? But I happen to live in Guangzhou, China at the moment, and dockless bikes are doing quite well despite the biased press in the US. Biking is big here already, and I estimate 1/4 to 1/3 of the bikes I see on the roads are bike shares. I like dockless bikes because life is not always symmetrical - if I am meeting friends for a coffee, then a trip to an art gallery, then to dinner, I might need a bike at the start but at the end I want to take a bus. With a OfO or Mobike, I just find a bike using the rangefinder in the app, unlock it, and go where I want to go. I don’t have to go find my bike where I left it. As Paul points out, it’s a good use of GPS. It’s also an example of how China is one of the countries that is far ahead on electronic payments and the sharing economy. As Paul notes, there is a cost of entry - but you don’t need an iPhone to use Mobike or Ofo; a Huawei phone will be fine! The ride itself is 1 RMB (1/6 of a US dollar). There is no time limit that I know of, although the price of the ride goes up the longer you use the bike.. The bikes are not as sturdy as the docked Citibikes in NYC, and I suspect that’s a feature of the dockless paradigm (OfO doesn’t have to charge me $1000 if I fail to dock the bike or the bike is broken). Dockless bikes also get a lot of use, so they do break down. When they do, users can tag the bike as broken and a crew rounds them up for repair or recycling. So, I wouldn’t say (like the Atlantic photo suggests) that dockless bikes are a failed project of a junk economy. They are not a replacement for sustainable infrastructure either, and I read a different article earlier this week that 98% of the world’s electric busses are in China. So they seem to be part of a larger project of making cities livable. Incidentally, riders can use their cell phones to pay the bus fare as well. Chris Leslie On May 31, 2018, at 1:10 AM, Bjorn Westergard <bjornw@gmail.com<mailto:bjornw@gmail.com>> wrote: On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 9:59 AM Ceruzzi, Paul <CeruzziP@si.edu<mailto:CeruzziP@si.edu>> wrote: These things have suddenly appeared all over downtown DC, along with the pastel-colored dockless bikeshares (LimeBike, OfO, et al). I tried a Bird scooter—they can go fast! But it takes nerves of steel to ride in traffic. The drivers don’t like it when you take up a lane, even if you ride fast. But if you go on the sidewalk, the pedestrians get mad at you, for good reason. I think they are a great idea, especially since both the NY subways and the DC Metro are both in a state of collapse. (I use Capital Bikeshare, a system that requires docs, every day in my commute. The bikes are sturdy, a bit heavy, but well-suited for urban travel.) I too live in D.C. It's not at all clear to me that these dockless scooters and bicycles ought to be part of our transportation mix long-term - what need do they serve that would not be better served by busses and docked bicycles? What are these but a novelty for high-income residents of the urban core, a new way for teenagers to concuss themselves[fn:1], propped up by VC largesse and externalization of social costs (e.g. the obstruction of streets and sidewalks, the proliferation of "gig" employment)? If made to pay these costs - by employing rebalancers at a living wage and maintaining a service level that kept public thoroughfares unobstructed - could these enterprises ever turn a profit? How does their environmental impact compare to alternatives? The Chinese experience, alluded to above, does not inspire confidence. Bikeshare, which should have been public<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.atulocal689.org%2Fcapital-bikeshare.html&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=tfDHMDoY%2FofMb%2BYkZzpLTG9W2y4R8v4bZvElOIxhmi8%3D&reserved=0>, is at least union<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twulocal100.org%2Fstory%2Ftwu-notches-another-bike-share-win-washington-dc&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=OhwOo%2FKIZSIRZ35ofmDvXR9Jf9X8oH%2BPW1NNd9zPCrw%3D&reserved=0>. - Bjorn Westergard [fn:1]: I have witnessed two such accidents already. _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fsigcis.org%2F&data=01%7C01%7Cbbwalker%40unr.edu%7C128c1ff95bac4527b53808d5c7308e4a%7C523b4bfc0ebd4c03b2b96f6a17fd31d8%7C1&sdata=Ptq4XoPaFXxywa4kmIHOfnAWsmyPqgYUvRNaSpnW41Y%3D&reserved=0>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. 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participants (8)
-
Armando Fox -
Barbara B Walker -
Bjorn Westergard -
Ceruzzi, Paul -
Chris Leslie -
Julie Cohn -
Sarah T. Roberts -
Thomas Haigh