Ah Yes. Blue Books. Dag, you are a naughty person, because I had not thought about Blue Books for over 50 years! They hurt my hands, they were too slow to capture my thinking, they led me to fear what horrible questions I would have to pontificate about. Best question I ever had to write about came in a modern Russian history class where all the exams were multiple choice until the final. Blue books and 1 Question, for which we had 3 hours to respond: "Was Stalin Necessary?" Everyone wrote in multiple Blue Books, I wrote for 30 minutes arguing why he was necessary to industrialize and modernize the Soviet economy just in time for WWII. I got an A+ with the professor commenting that I had internalized modern Russian history and could think through what it all meant. But I love the old-school solution. Thanks for sharing this posting. Jim On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 2:26 PM Danny Spitzberg via Members < members@lists.sigcis.org> wrote:
Related to what Dag quoted about books... this just out <https://archive.ph/JtpKt> from the Wall Street Journal
They Were Every Student’s Worst Nightmare. Now Blue Books Are Back. Cheating with ChatGPT has become a huge problem for colleges. The solution is painfully old-school.
By Ben Cohen
May 23, 2025 8:00 pm ET
On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 10:11 AM Dag Spicer via Members < members@lists.sigcis.org> wrote:
Some thoughts on The Book from the wonderful Carl Sagan seem apposite: “What an astonishing thing a book is. It's a flat object made from a tree with flexible parts on which are imprinted lots of funny dark squiggles. But one glance at it and you're inside the mind of another person, maybe somebody dead for thousands of years. Across the millennia, an author is speaking clearly and silently inside your head, directly to you. Writing is perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people who never knew each other, citizens of distant epochs. Books break the shackles of time. A book is proof that humans are capable of working magic." Dag ----- Dag Spicer Senior Curator Computer History Museum Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing ACM History Committee 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd. Mountain View CA 94043
“History is a vast early warning system.” — Norman Cousins, American journalist (1915-1990).
Join our Mailing List here: https://info.computerhistory.org/subscribe
On May 24, 2025, at 2:01 AM, Willard McCarty via Members < members@lists.sigcis.org> wrote:
An intrusion from an outsider who subscribes...
This morning on BBC Radio 4 someone at the Hay-on-Wye Festival (celebrating books) got to talking about the pleasure of reading physical codices. That led me to thinking about the inevitable loss of data (if you will) when a book, any book, is digitised. I couldn't do the interdisciplinary work I do without access to a large number of digitised texts. Indeed I am exceedingly grateful for digital collections and build my own with the help of a good scanner + OCR. But then there's the sustained reading of those I regard as important to spend time with.
However such an argument runs, the fact is that digitisation is a particularly lossy form of translation. More than that, it not so much makes the scholar's life easier as quite different. I worry about the 'easier' bit because it entails loss that one quickly stops thinking about--hence the tendency to miss what only hard work will find. Given the competitiveness of the academic life esp. for junior scholars--I'd guess that in this crowd I don't have to spell it out.
On the tangible/digital, not either/or but both!
All best, Willard McCarty
On 23/05/2025 22:39, James Cortada via Members wrote:
To your second point, what if the old Irish newspapers were no longer around to check? We have 90 years of experience of librarians filming and digitizing newspapers, magazines, etc then throwing away the originals, at least in the USA. That was especially so with American librarians with newspapers beginning in the 1930s when they microfilmed them. Hate to criticize them, but they sometimes did not film all the issues of a newspaper, sometimes missed pages, or they came out blurry. Fast forward to the future if AI invents citations to stuff that no longer exists in their original. I encountered a bit of that similar result with the Google book project a few years ago. I worry about this possibility. How do we address that problem?
Meanwhile, I, an old guy who grew up pre-AI, will still look at hard copies or trusted online versions of something (e.g., a journal) and keep hard copies of anything I cite off the Internet (e.g., images) before dropping that info into an endnote, because I don't want to be accused of faking stuff. It's hard enough working with real facts and sources. I suggest others follow a similar path. Call me old fashioned, but it has not hurt my productivity so far. Thanks for posting your thoughts, Brian. Jim Cortada
On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 4:22 PM Brian Randell via Members <members@lists.sigcis.org <mailto:members@lists.sigcis.org>> wrote:
Hi:____
__ __
My colleague Brian Coghlan added two further points about the dangers AI hallucinations/fabrications pose to historians who are trying to use Generative AI tools to help their investigations:____
__ __
First, our own investigation very strongly implied the "AI error rate" was inversely proportional to the AI ____
knowledge of the query topic. So one *very easy* countermeasure would be for AI tools to calculate their ____
knowledge of the topic and inversely adapt their response to that (be more cautious, not provide citations, ____
warn users their knowledge is weak, etc). *THAT* would make me somewhat hopeful ...
Secondly, "but then I found" fake citations -- these are a *REALLY* serious issue, especially to very old ____
sources, e.g. the 100+ years old Irish Times citations I'd to check -- it took a full 2 days of my time plus an ____
archivist to check them, and he spent the previous day physically retrieving the papers from a remote ____
archive (and presumably another day returning them) -- I got this effort gratis because of the novelty of ____
our investigation at that time, but it'd be unlikely to be repeated now without funding to pay for staff effort.____
Imagine some years from now when huge numbers of these fake citations have to be checked, simply____
because one might be a previously unknown real citation. Who on earth is going to fund that? ____
__ __
Cheers____
__ __
Brian Randell____
__ __
-- ____
__ __
School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG____
EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk <mailto:Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk> PHONE = +44 (0)786 7805578____
URL = https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546393139%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oNnyTHMuMgMucXs1HQaF7fFQ2aPrePKtCUKz%2FgOWL3I%3D&reserved=0 brianrandell.html < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546414984%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fIctrwGi4ixQuD4q3NTvxNmvkkTHWp7QVNz%2FUgsYM7w%3D&reserved=0 brianrandell.html>____
__ __
__ __
__ __
*From: *Brian Randell <brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk <mailto:brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk>> *Date: *Wednesday, 7 May 2025 at 14:52 *To: *Adam Hyland <achyland@uw.edu <mailto:achyland@uw.edu>> *Cc: *Sigcis <members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>> *Subject: *Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Perplexity____
Hi Adam:____
____
Thanks – I hadn’t realised that URL links to Perplexity’s answers aren’t transferable.____
____
It is certainly the case that Perplexity (which is based on ChatGPT4 I believe) is much more “knowledgeable” about Percy Ludgate than ChatGPT was – not least because it has ingested subsequent additions to the Internet. ____
____
Indeed, given the huge amount of effort and money being poured into LLM research we surely should expect the latest models to be significantly improved. ____
____
And Perplexity’s answer to my question “Are the references that Perplexity provides always real ones” was very reasonable, one might even say “thoughtful”, though its cautionary comments have of course to be applied to this answer itself – a nice example of recursion. ____
____
However, the NY Times had a very interesting, and surely worrying (for the Artificial Intelligentsia, especially) piece yesterday entitled: “A.I. Is Getting More Powerful, but Its Hallucinations Are Getting Worse: A new wave of “reasoning” systems from companies like OpenAI is producing incorrect information more often. Even the companies don’t know why.”____
____
I hope this link to it will work: ____
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2025%2F05%2F05%2Ftechnology%2Fai-hallucinations-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546436545%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gEVbAtuBLymTKWaFwz9h%2Be6vYbq5q2UNlVdPUpDvRE0%3D&reserved=0 chatgpt-google.html? unlocked_article_code=1.E08.mKzL.qenddVF5UQVq&smid=url-share < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2025%2F05%2F05%2Ftechnology%2Fai-hallucinations-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546455331%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vRVlqD9IhBHHxMDZHD6gukKl2tzL%2B7HvgQ1MdNMoV7U%3D&reserved=0 chatgpt-google.html? unlocked_article_code=1.E08.mKzL.qenddVF5UQVq&smid=url-share>____
____
And on the subject of “hallucinations” (or rather “fabrications”), I also strongly recommend Gary Marcus’s very recent piece:____
____
Why DO large language models hallucinate? <https:// garymarcus.substack.com/p/why-do-large-language-models-hallucinate> ____
( https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgarymarcus.substack.com%2Fp%2Fwhy-do-large-language-models-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546472543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xPJ2YSxEUEEBw9YRCf7qod1tjpyjd52GxXOWNmzKYdU%3D&reserved=0 hallucinate < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgarymarcus.substack.com%2Fp%2Fwhy-do-large-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546489849%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cyClLhEZ5tXUcNiWnOY0%2BTZUQI2OvxYAFj24rnGi3hY%3D&reserved=0 language-models-hallucinate>)____
____
Let me end by quoting from it:____
____
“Because LLMS statistically mimic the language people have used, they often /fool people /into thinking that they operate like people. But they don’t operate like people. They don’t, for example, ever /fact check/ (as humans sometimes, when well motivated, do). They /mimic the kinds of things of people say in various contexts/. And that’s essentially all they do. . .____
Of course the systems are probabilistic; not every LLM will produce a hallucination every time. But the problem is not going away; OpenAI’s recent o3 actually hallucinates<https://
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theleftshift.com%2Fopenai-admits-newer-models-hallucinate-even-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546506529%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xw5N%2Fc6tdtVnuVi4D03pyaPlcthOWxyKWT02P5Ofjss%3D&reserved=0 more/>/more < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theleftshift.com%2Fopenai-admits-newer-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546521577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bQjrSC%2B7xv8IYTFYlHcrdXFCDt8h9eZuoVhYJ6GqH1U%3D&reserved=0 models-hallucinate-even-more/>/than some its predecesssors <https://
The chronic problem with creating fake citations in research papers < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Flarsdaniel%2F2025%2F01%2F29%2Fthe-irony-ai-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546547635%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HD1jw8wsOJghYC6LIxA6MpL%2FI7YU9HEy69mugPUys8o%3D&reserved=0 experts-testimony--collapses-over-fake-ai-citations/> and faked cases in legal briefs < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Flindell-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546560792%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gyX8uT%2Fug31s5K8zkvG1VujsP%2FX8ZOnsa%2Fdz85tECU0%3D&reserved=0 dominion-2671843170/> is a manifestation of the same problem; LLMs correctly “model” the structure of academic references, but often make up titles, page numbers, journals and so on — once again failing to sanity check their outputs against information (in this case lists of references) that are readily found on the internet. So to is therampant problem with numerical errors in financial reports < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vals.ai%2Fbenchmarks%2Ffinance_agent-04-22-2025&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546576681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Jy66QrskB3aPCoO3ayT%2FICWZ4FlbqZq5M6SlRgAbyZM%3D&reserved=0
, documented in a recent benchmark.____
Just how bad is it? One recent study showed rates of hallucinations of between 15% and 60%< https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fresearch.aimultiple.com%2Fai-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546590578%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=seRW1vLe2NuBP15YS%2F%2FmAtHGOCE%2B5838OzedZyVUnN0%3D&reserved=0 hallucination/>across various models on a benchmark of 60 questions that were /easily verifiable relative to easily found CNN source articles that were directly supplied in the exam/. Even the best performance (15% hallucination rate) is, relative to an open-book exam with sources supplied, pathetic. That same study reports that, “According to Deloitte, 77% of businesses who joined the study are concerned about AI hallucinations”.____
If I can be blunt, it is an absolute embarrassment that a technology that has collectively cost about half a trillion dollars can’t do something as basic as (reliably) check its output against wikipedia or a CNN article that is handed on a silver plattter. But LLMs still cannot - and on their own may never be able to — reliably do even things that basic.”____
Cheers____
____
Brian____
____
-- ____
____
School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG____
EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk <mailto:Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk> PHONE = +44 (0)786 7805578____
URL = https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546603193%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xVmA%2FdBbDaP81326OABeW%2FbePJz4Z8aihr%2F3dSqt7zE%3D&reserved=0 brianrandell.html < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546615899%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QnN96y8EPhon8PY3WVdoggoWF0o3j23NTDpPYSGZlBk%3D&reserved=0 brianrandell.html>____
____
____
____
*From: *Adam Hyland <achyland@uw.edu <mailto:achyland@uw.edu>> *Date: *Tuesday, 6 May 2025 at 23:15 *To: *Brian Randell <brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk <mailto:brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk>> *Cc: *Sigcis <members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>> *Subject: *Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Perplexity____
⚠External sender. Take care when opening links or attachments. Do not provide your login details. ____
Thanks for your return to this topic. The perplexity thread you shared is private and unfortunately the pdf generated obscures the answer with a UI element. I’ve asked the same question to Perplexity using their “research” mode which more profligately uses computing resources to give a more detailed answer. The result is here (____
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546629150%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8QIVbhLoazvcEGTCFS3nRUmDn2neKBJFd7nq8EkVJ1o%3D&reserved=0 oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546642455%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0yHeqZbyjt5RHEE6eq%2FZoJ0J1UcyJfR9tBSJQSSQ4sA%3D&reserved=0 ludgate-s-work-have-oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw>) and should be available to anyone with the URL.____
____
I’m familiar with perplexity because the University of Washington pays for “pro” access which makes it both partially difficult and morally dubious to proscribe its use in the classroom.____
____
One broad point is probably obvious to everyone but bears repeating: there is much more difference in capability between any of these agents today versus a year ago than there is among the agents themselves. They all show a dramatic increase in capability to “understand” queries and generate cogent responses. If someone on this thread last posed one of their exam questions to ChatGPT last year they ought to try again today, and again in another month.____
____
-Adam____
____
Adam Hyland (/he/him)/ ____
____
UW HCDE PhD Student____
____
____
On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 8:57 AM Brian Randell via Members <members@lists.sigcis.org <mailto:members@lists.sigcis.org>> wrote:____
Hi:____
____
A while ago I and colleagues published a short critique in the Annals of the History of Computing of ChatGPT, based on its performance on some questions about Percy Ludgate.____
____
I’ve recently been trying (the free version of) Perplexity, the AI search (or more exactly question-answering) system.____
____
Perplexity itself claims:____
____
Here's what makes Perplexity different____
____
Answers that are accurate and always cited____
We continuously search the internet and identify the best sources, from academic research ____
to Reddit threads, to provide the perfect answer to any question.____
____
Citations in every response____
Every answer uses cited sources to provide a more accurate and comprehensive answer. ____
If you want to dig deeper, just click the link to the source.____
____
See its brilliant answer to the question “Did Percy Ludgate's work have any impact?”:____
____
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-ludgate-s-work-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546668082%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dzyBnIvPfmq65vIvQjJPwvPZHANmdBEFbwA%2FIIPaVdw%3D&reserved=0 have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546681405%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oMVxUq3W6zK%2BIoz3VDH1V5sIJ8LsSD8KEo1aSvqOtm0%3D&reserved=0 __ https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-ludgate-s-work-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546694395%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nItNM3SOH4x4wTqFMVD56VVdYHMtgQiK8RCJ8GBL3i8%3D&reserved=0 have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-
UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l7QbFBQe$>____
____
The web version limits the number of questions per day – so far the iPhone App hasn’t.____
____
I assume I’m not alone here in trying Perplexity, but I don’t recall any previous comment about it in SIGCIS.____
____
However, the Wikipedia article about it ____
urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546719376%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0PAz3wNJkFpfXf%2BrFq5X2ndkK9Ag1geNAVatxGlAwgc%3D&reserved=0 Perplexity_AI__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-
UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l_ByERqJ$>____
is a little sobering, regarding its alleged copyright violations, and failure to respect the robots.txt web-crawling standards.____
____
Cheers____
____
Brian____
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http:// sigcis.org/>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546734328%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=mNTHHgtSvVSBbyjJnHzo8v9L5h35RTOFbE1wt3YK8Hg%3D&reserved=0 pipermail/members-sigcis.org/__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4- UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1lxruqEdl$ < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Fpipermail%2Fmembers-sigcis.org%2F__%3B!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1lxruqEdl%24&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546747965%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f6nX7F1K3268ahsegkgnJjIzdjxAXPnNO0bhNCXmGYs%3D&reserved=0> and you can change your subscription options at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmembers-sigcis.org__%3B!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1lwGqTJnR%24&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546760503%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rYIHnjbbpNxLv98QQmLWlAQfCHs92vz1U17hSahAsSw%3D&reserved=0 < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmembers-sigcis.org__%3B!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1lwGqTJnR%24&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546772708%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xwE53BautyC9Vpn6F9r8qw86O24BApLGqyGucsZqqzA%3D&reserved=0> ____
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http:// sigcis.org>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http:// lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ <http:// lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/> and you can change your subscription options at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546784738%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XtcDc0HkYCyhnQ3mPdaIubbp5Wo0LWrGpSQFJ5%2BKdzE%3D&reserved=0 members-sigcis.org < https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmembers-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546798030%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nwG2%2BG8yCUGsx0LBjttoVj9Z8%2BwvrOd9AoMgI8j2vAw%3D&reserved=0 sigcis.org>
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu <mailto:jcortada@umn.edu> 608-274-6382
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Fpipermail%2Fmembers-sigcis.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546810380%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7QZaDpifoQT10soobyZ%2FXcy3c7uvAWYc9j%2BOYHKFrx0%3D&reserved=0 and you can change your subscription options at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmembers-sigcis.org&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546822843%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JfGl%2FObIRVGbcND3yPtsObIeULypic3vGckuvEjAiG4%3D&reserved=0
-- Willard McCarty, Professor emeritus, King's College London; Editor, Humanist
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Fpipermail%2Fmembers-sigcis.org%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546849073%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bLukzhtSLkVWdX9sjeHXmRCsKHF8NBGBmh0cDv7x%2FjI%3D&reserved=0 and you can change your subscription options at https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fmembers-sigcis.org&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546862281%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=AABudduVx2EjcqxTmhQ2LSEg%2FLaLshsxoe%2BHmG0ry38%3D&reserved=0 .
CAUTION: External email. Beware of links & attachments.
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382