[SIGCIS-Members] Perplexity
James Cortada
jcortada at umn.edu
Mon May 26 12:35:08 PDT 2025
Ah Yes. Blue Books. Dag, you are a naughty person, because I had not
thought about Blue Books for over 50 years! They hurt my hands, they were
too slow to capture my thinking, they led me to fear what horrible
questions I would have to pontificate about.
Best question I ever had to write about came in a modern Russian history
class where all the exams were multiple choice until the final. Blue books
and 1 Question, for which we had 3 hours to respond: "Was Stalin
Necessary?" Everyone wrote in multiple Blue Books, I wrote for 30 minutes
arguing why he was necessary to industrialize and modernize the Soviet
economy just in time for WWII. I got an A+ with the professor commenting
that I had internalized modern Russian history and could think through what
it all meant.
But I love the old-school solution. Thanks for sharing this posting. Jim
On Mon, May 26, 2025 at 2:26 PM Danny Spitzberg via Members <
members at lists.sigcis.org> wrote:
> Related to what Dag quoted about books... this just out
> <https://archive.ph/JtpKt> from the Wall Street Journal
>
> They Were Every Student’s Worst Nightmare. Now Blue Books Are Back.
> Cheating with ChatGPT has become a huge problem for colleges. The solution
> is painfully old-school.
>
> By
> Ben Cohen
>
> May 23, 2025 8:00 pm ET
>
> On Sat, May 24, 2025 at 10:11 AM Dag Spicer via Members <
> members at lists.sigcis.org> wrote:
>
>> Some thoughts on The Book from the wonderful Carl Sagan seem apposite:
>> “What an astonishing thing a book is. It's a flat object made from a tree
>> with flexible parts on which are imprinted lots of funny dark squiggles.
>> But one glance at it and you're inside the mind of another person, maybe
>> somebody dead for thousands of years. Across the millennia, an author is
>> speaking clearly and silently inside your head, directly to you. Writing is
>> perhaps the greatest of human inventions, binding together people who never
>> knew each other, citizens of distant epochs. Books break the shackles of
>> time. A book is proof that humans are capable of working magic."
>> Dag
>> -----
>> Dag Spicer
>> Senior Curator
>> Computer History Museum
>> Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing
>> ACM History Committee
>> 1401 N. Shoreline Blvd.
>> Mountain View CA 94043
>>
>> “History is a vast early warning system.”
>> — Norman Cousins, American journalist (1915-1990).
>>
>> Join our Mailing List here: https://info.computerhistory.org/subscribe
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 24, 2025, at 2:01 AM, Willard McCarty via Members <
>> members at lists.sigcis.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> An intrusion from an outsider who subscribes...
>>
>> This morning on BBC Radio 4 someone at the Hay-on-Wye Festival
>> (celebrating books) got to talking about the pleasure of reading
>> physical codices. That led me to thinking about the inevitable loss of
>> data (if you will) when a book, any book, is digitised. I couldn't do
>> the interdisciplinary work I do without access to a large number of
>> digitised texts. Indeed I am exceedingly grateful for digital
>> collections and build my own with the help of a good scanner + OCR. But
>> then there's the sustained reading of those I regard as important to
>> spend time with.
>>
>> However such an argument runs, the fact is that digitisation is a
>> particularly lossy form of translation. More than that, it not so much
>> makes the scholar's life easier as quite different. I worry about the
>> 'easier' bit because it entails loss that one quickly stops thinking
>> about--hence the tendency to miss what only hard work will find. Given
>> the competitiveness of the academic life esp. for junior scholars--I'd
>> guess that in this crowd I don't have to spell it out.
>>
>> On the tangible/digital, not either/or but both!
>>
>> All best,
>> Willard McCarty
>>
>> On 23/05/2025 22:39, James Cortada via Members wrote:
>>
>> To your second point, what if the old Irish newspapers were no longer
>> around to check? We have 90 years of experience of librarians filming
>> and digitizing newspapers, magazines, etc then throwing away the
>> originals, at least in the USA. That was especially so with American
>> librarians with newspapers beginning in the 1930s when they microfilmed
>> them. Hate to criticize them, but they sometimes did not film all the
>> issues of a newspaper, sometimes missed pages, or they came out blurry.
>> Fast forward to the future if AI invents citations to stuff that no
>> longer exists in their original. I encountered a bit of that similar
>> result with the Google book project a few years ago. I worry about this
>> possibility. How do we address that problem?
>>
>> Meanwhile, I, an old guy who grew up pre-AI, will still look at hard
>> copies or trusted online versions of something (e.g., a journal) and
>> keep hard copies of anything I cite off the Internet (e.g., images)
>> before dropping that info into an endnote, because I don't want to be
>> accused of faking stuff. It's hard enough working with real facts and
>> sources. I suggest others follow a similar path. Call me old
>> fashioned, but it has not hurt my productivity so far. Thanks for
>> posting your thoughts, Brian. Jim Cortada
>>
>> On Fri, May 23, 2025 at 4:22 PM Brian Randell via Members
>> <members at lists.sigcis.org <mailto:members at lists.sigcis.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi:____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> My colleague Brian Coghlan added two further points about the
>> dangers AI hallucinations/fabrications pose to historians who are
>> trying to use Generative AI tools to help their investigations:____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> First, our own investigation very strongly implied the "AI error
>> rate" was inversely proportional to the AI ____
>>
>> knowledge of the query topic. So one *very easy* countermeasure
>> would be for AI tools to calculate their ____
>>
>> knowledge of the topic and inversely adapt their response to that
>> (be more cautious, not provide citations, ____
>>
>> warn users their knowledge is weak, etc). *THAT* would make me
>> somewhat hopeful ...
>>
>> Secondly, "but then I found" fake citations -- these are a *REALLY*
>> serious issue, especially to very old ____
>>
>> sources, e.g. the 100+ years old Irish Times citations I'd to check
>> -- it took a full 2 days of my time plus an ____
>>
>> archivist to check them, and he spent the previous day physically
>> retrieving the papers from a remote ____
>>
>> archive (and presumably another day returning them) -- I got this
>> effort gratis because of the novelty of ____
>>
>> our investigation at that time, but it'd be unlikely to be repeated
>> now without funding to pay for staff effort.____
>>
>> Imagine some years from now when huge numbers of these fake
>> citations have to be checked, simply____
>>
>> because one might be a previously unknown real citation. Who on
>> earth is going to fund that? ____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Cheers____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Brian Randell____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> -- ____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square,
>> Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG____
>>
>> EMAIL = Brian.Randell at ncl.ac.uk <mailto:Brian.Randell at ncl.ac.uk>
>> PHONE = +44 (0)786 7805578____
>>
>> URL =
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546393139%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oNnyTHMuMgMucXs1HQaF7fFQ2aPrePKtCUKz%2FgOWL3I%3D&reserved=0
>> brianrandell.html <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546414984%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fIctrwGi4ixQuD4q3NTvxNmvkkTHWp7QVNz%2FUgsYM7w%3D&reserved=0
>> brianrandell.html>____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> *From: *Brian Randell <brian.randell at newcastle.ac.uk
>> <mailto:brian.randell at newcastle.ac.uk>>
>> *Date: *Wednesday, 7 May 2025 at 14:52
>> *To: *Adam Hyland <achyland at uw.edu <mailto:achyland at uw.edu>>
>> *Cc: *Sigcis <members at sigcis.org <mailto:members at sigcis.org>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Perplexity____
>>
>> Hi Adam:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Thanks – I hadn’t realised that URL links to Perplexity’s answers
>> aren’t transferable.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> It is certainly the case that Perplexity (which is based on ChatGPT4
>> I believe) is much more “knowledgeable” about Percy Ludgate than
>> ChatGPT was – not least because it has ingested subsequent additions
>> to the Internet. ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Indeed, given the huge amount of effort and money being poured into
>> LLM research we surely should expect the latest models to be
>> significantly improved. ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> And Perplexity’s answer to my question “Are the references that
>> Perplexity provides always real ones” was very reasonable, one might
>> even say “thoughtful”, though its cautionary comments have of course
>> to be applied to this answer itself – a nice example of recursion. ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> However, the NY Times had a very interesting, and surely worrying
>> (for the Artificial Intelligentsia, especially) piece yesterday
>> entitled: “A.I. Is Getting More Powerful, but Its Hallucinations Are
>> Getting Worse: A new wave of “reasoning” systems from companies like
>> OpenAI is producing incorrect information more often. Even the
>> companies don’t know why.”____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I hope this link to it will work: ____
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2025%2F05%2F05%2Ftechnology%2Fai-hallucinations-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546436545%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gEVbAtuBLymTKWaFwz9h%2Be6vYbq5q2UNlVdPUpDvRE0%3D&reserved=0
>> chatgpt-google.html?
>> unlocked_article_code=1.E08.mKzL.qenddVF5UQVq&smid=url-share
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2025%2F05%2F05%2Ftechnology%2Fai-hallucinations-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546455331%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vRVlqD9IhBHHxMDZHD6gukKl2tzL%2B7HvgQ1MdNMoV7U%3D&reserved=0
>> chatgpt-google.html?
>> unlocked_article_code=1.E08.mKzL.qenddVF5UQVq&smid=url-share>____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> And on the subject of “hallucinations” (or rather “fabrications”), I
>> also strongly recommend Gary Marcus’s very recent piece:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Why DO large language models hallucinate? <https://
>> garymarcus.substack.com/p/why-do-large-language-models-hallucinate>
>> ____
>>
>> (
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgarymarcus.substack.com%2Fp%2Fwhy-do-large-language-models-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546472543%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xPJ2YSxEUEEBw9YRCf7qod1tjpyjd52GxXOWNmzKYdU%3D&reserved=0
>> hallucinate <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgarymarcus.substack.com%2Fp%2Fwhy-do-large-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546489849%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cyClLhEZ5tXUcNiWnOY0%2BTZUQI2OvxYAFj24rnGi3hY%3D&reserved=0
>> language-models-hallucinate>)____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Let me end by quoting from it:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> “Because LLMS statistically mimic the language people have used,
>> they often /fool people /into thinking that they operate like
>> people. But they don’t operate like people. They don’t, for example,
>> ever /fact check/ (as humans sometimes, when well motivated, do).
>> They /mimic the kinds of things of people say in various contexts/.
>> And that’s essentially all they do. . .____
>>
>> Of course the systems are probabilistic; not every LLM will produce
>> a hallucination every time. But the problem is not going away;
>> OpenAI’s recent o3 actually hallucinates<https://
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theleftshift.com%2Fopenai-admits-newer-models-hallucinate-even-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546506529%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xw5N%2Fc6tdtVnuVi4D03pyaPlcthOWxyKWT02P5Ofjss%3D&reserved=0
>> more/>/more <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theleftshift.com%2Fopenai-admits-newer-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546521577%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bQjrSC%2B7xv8IYTFYlHcrdXFCDt8h9eZuoVhYJ6GqH1U%3D&reserved=0
>> models-hallucinate-even-more/>/than some its predecesssors <https://
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theleftshift.com%2Fopenai-admits-newer-models-hallucinate-even-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546534705%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZLpsZutayii5WFyyxofOWiVMASWx1O0nu4picq8gVdc%3D&reserved=0
>> more/>. ____
>>
>> The chronic problem with creating fake citations in research papers
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Flarsdaniel%2F2025%2F01%2F29%2Fthe-irony-ai-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546547635%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HD1jw8wsOJghYC6LIxA6MpL%2FI7YU9HEy69mugPUys8o%3D&reserved=0
>> experts-testimony--collapses-over-fake-ai-citations/> and faked
>> cases in legal briefs <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rawstory.com%2Flindell-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546560792%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gyX8uT%2Fug31s5K8zkvG1VujsP%2FX8ZOnsa%2Fdz85tECU0%3D&reserved=0
>> dominion-2671843170/> is a manifestation of the same problem; LLMs
>> correctly “model” the structure of academic references, but often
>> make up titles, page numbers, journals and so on — once again
>> failing to sanity check their outputs against information (in this
>> case lists of references) that are readily found on the internet. So
>> to is therampant problem with numerical errors in financial reports
>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vals.ai%2Fbenchmarks%2Ffinance_agent-04-22-2025&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546576681%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Jy66QrskB3aPCoO3ayT%2FICWZ4FlbqZq5M6SlRgAbyZM%3D&reserved=0
>> >,
>> documented in a recent benchmark.____
>>
>> Just how bad is it? One recent study showed rates of hallucinations
>> of between 15% and 60%<
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fresearch.aimultiple.com%2Fai-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546590578%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=seRW1vLe2NuBP15YS%2F%2FmAtHGOCE%2B5838OzedZyVUnN0%3D&reserved=0
>> hallucination/>across various models on a benchmark of 60 questions
>> that were /easily verifiable relative to easily found CNN source
>> articles that were directly supplied in the exam/. Even the best
>> performance (15% hallucination rate) is, relative to an open-book
>> exam with sources supplied, pathetic. That same study reports that,
>> “According to Deloitte, 77% of businesses who joined the study are
>> concerned about AI hallucinations”.____
>>
>> If I can be blunt, it is an absolute embarrassment that a technology
>> that has collectively cost about half a trillion dollars can’t do
>> something as basic as (reliably) check its output against wikipedia
>> or a CNN article that is handed on a silver plattter. But LLMs still
>> cannot - and on their own may never be able to — reliably do even
>> things that basic.”____
>>
>> Cheers____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Brian____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> -- ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> School of Computing, Newcastle University, 1 Science Square,
>> Newcastle upon Tyne, NE4 5TG____
>>
>> EMAIL = Brian.Randell at ncl.ac.uk <mailto:Brian.Randell at ncl.ac.uk>
>> PHONE = +44 (0)786 7805578____
>>
>> URL =
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546603193%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xVmA%2FdBbDaP81326OABeW%2FbePJz4Z8aihr%2F3dSqt7zE%3D&reserved=0
>> brianrandell.html <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncl.ac.uk%2Fcomputing%2Fstaff%2Fprofile%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546615899%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QnN96y8EPhon8PY3WVdoggoWF0o3j23NTDpPYSGZlBk%3D&reserved=0
>> brianrandell.html>____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *From: *Adam Hyland <achyland at uw.edu <mailto:achyland at uw.edu>>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 6 May 2025 at 23:15
>> *To: *Brian Randell <brian.randell at newcastle.ac.uk
>> <mailto:brian.randell at newcastle.ac.uk>>
>> *Cc: *Sigcis <members at sigcis.org <mailto:members at sigcis.org>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Perplexity____
>>
>> ⚠External sender. Take care when opening links or attachments. Do
>> not provide your login details. ____
>>
>> Thanks for your return to this topic. The perplexity thread you
>> shared is private and unfortunately the pdf generated obscures the
>> answer with a UI element. I’ve asked the same question to Perplexity
>> using their “research” mode which more profligately uses computing
>> resources to give a more detailed answer. The result is here (____
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546629150%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8QIVbhLoazvcEGTCFS3nRUmDn2neKBJFd7nq8EkVJ1o%3D&reserved=0
>> oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546642455%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0yHeqZbyjt5RHEE6eq%2FZoJ0J1UcyJfR9tBSJQSSQ4sA%3D&reserved=0
>> ludgate-s-work-have-oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw>) and should be available
>> to anyone with the URL.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I’m familiar with perplexity because the University of Washington
>> pays for “pro” access which makes it both partially difficult and
>> morally dubious to proscribe its use in the classroom.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> One broad point is probably obvious to everyone but bears repeating:
>> there is much more difference in capability between any of these
>> agents today versus a year ago than there is among the agents
>> themselves. They all show a dramatic increase in capability to
>> “understand” queries and generate cogent responses. If someone on
>> this thread last posed one of their exam questions to ChatGPT last
>> year they ought to try again today, and again in another month.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> -Adam____
>>
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Adam Hyland (/he/him)/ ____
>>
>> adampunk.com <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fadampunk.com%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546655285%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Ow8%2FV0Y7rWMGRQhane6Pp%2FcE9Oxg55j0zNPTYgT8bBg%3D&reserved=0
>> >____
>>
>> UW HCDE PhD Student____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 8:57 AM Brian Randell via Members
>> <members at lists.sigcis.org <mailto:members at lists.sigcis.org>>
>> wrote:____
>>
>> Hi:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> A while ago I and colleagues published a short critique in the
>> Annals of the History of Computing of ChatGPT, based on its
>> performance on some questions about Percy Ludgate.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I’ve recently been trying (the free version of) Perplexity, the
>> AI search (or more exactly question-answering) system.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Perplexity itself claims:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Here's what makes Perplexity different____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Answers that are accurate and always cited____
>>
>> We continuously search the internet and identify the best
>> sources, from academic research ____
>>
>> to Reddit threads, to provide the perfect answer to any
>> question.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Citations in every response____
>>
>> Every answer uses cited sources to provide a more accurate and
>> comprehensive answer. ____
>>
>> If you want to dig deeper, just click the link to the source.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> See its brilliant answer to the question “Did Percy Ludgate's
>> work have any impact?”:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-ludgate-s-work-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546668082%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dzyBnIvPfmq65vIvQjJPwvPZHANmdBEFbwA%2FIIPaVdw%3D&reserved=0
>> have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546681405%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=oMVxUq3W6zK%2BIoz3VDH1V5sIJ8LsSD8KEo1aSvqOtm0%3D&reserved=0
>> __
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perplexity.ai%2Fsearch%2Fdid-percy-ludgate-s-work-&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546694395%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nItNM3SOH4x4wTqFMVD56VVdYHMtgQiK8RCJ8GBL3i8%3D&reserved=0
>> have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-
>>
>> UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l7QbFBQe$>____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> The web version limits the number of questions per day – so far
>> the iPhone App hasn’t.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I assume I’m not alone here in trying Perplexity, but I don’t
>> recall any previous comment about it in SIGCIS.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> However, the Wikipedia article about it ____
>>
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FPerplexity_AI&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546706849%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ttz0ePB2g%2BxEWWIKeQcWtVWDB1FkyzqTPxuJo%2BQuZPE%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://
>>
>> urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546719376%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0PAz3wNJkFpfXf%2BrFq5X2ndkK9Ag1geNAVatxGlAwgc%3D&reserved=0
>> Perplexity_AI__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-
>>
>> UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l_ByERqJ$>____
>>
>> is a little sobering, regarding its alleged copyright
>> violations, and failure to respect the robots.txt web-crawling
>> standards.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Cheers____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Brian____
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http://
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>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.sigcis.org%2Fpipermail%2Fmembers-sigcis.org%2F__%3B!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1lxruqEdl%24&data=05%7C02%7Cdspicer%40computerhistory.org%7C38f01d8a834a4bf76b2608dd9aa1b495%7Cb6a9c12a29ee4c5f8f93f0d7a8e2db2f%7C0%7C0%7C638836741546747965%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=f6nX7F1K3268ahsegkgnJjIzdjxAXPnNO0bhNCXmGYs%3D&reserved=0>
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>> <
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>> ____
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http://
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>>
>>
>> --
>> James W. Cortada
>> Senior Research Fellow
>> Charles Babbage Institute
>> University of Minnesota
>> jcortada at umn.edu <mailto:jcortada at umn.edu>
>> 608-274-6382
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion
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>>
>> --
>> Willard McCarty,
>> Professor emeritus, King's College London;
>> Editor, Humanist
>>
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> _______________________________________________
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> list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member
> posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list
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--
James W. Cortada
Senior Research Fellow
Charles Babbage Institute
University of Minnesota
jcortada at umn.edu
608-274-6382
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