Google's poor stewardship of the USENET archive
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this! http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
I strongly disagree with you, Al. That is definitely NOT the way to deal with this problem. First, you have no idea why there is a problem, what Google's intentions are, based on the article you are circulating. Second, Google executives have been supportive of the work and institutions relevant to the preservation of computing's history. I have personal, first hand knowledge of that. So why irritate the firm that is on your side? If you are concerned, first we would need to validate what the article says, second we should query Google quietly about the matter to see if in fact they are evil to us, or, as I suspect is more the case, other issues have impinged on access that we are not aware of. Google decisions makers saying grace over the site might not even be aware of the discomfort they are creating for historians and therefore might be willing to help us out. Perhaps a couple of representatives of SHOT or SIGCIS should reach out to Google in a calm, collected manner? On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company- has-made-its-internet-archive-impossible-to-search
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
On 2/26/15 11:44 AM, jcortada University of Minnesota wrote:
I strongly disagree with you, Al. That is definitely NOT the way to deal with this problem. First, you have no idea why there is a problem, what Google's intentions are, based on the article you are circulating. Second, Google executives have been supportive of the work and institutions relevant to the preservation of computing's history. I have personal, first hand knowledge of that. So why irritate the firm that is on your side?
I have personal experience with this THEIR SEARCH IS BROKEN and has continually gotten worse over the past two years. My USENET posts have disappeared from their searches and I can't find posts that I know I've made in the past year. I have absolutely NO sympathy for Google on this issue.
Jim, I agree with your approach, but I also would add two comments in support of there being a problem. 1. Daniel Rehn knows this stuff inside-and-out. It is safe to rely on what he says, assuming the quotations are accurate. 2. The loss of Advanced Search of Google Groups was a big deal; I found that after it disappeared it became MUCH more difficult to do anything useful with historical USENET posts. It is a source I used quite a bit, before the change. If we pursue the "query Google quietly" approach, I would be happy to be one of the SHOT members. Henry On 2/26/2015 11:44 AM, jcortada University of Minnesota wrote:
I strongly disagree with you, Al. That is definitely NOT the way to deal with this problem. First, you have no idea why there is a problem, what Google's intentions are, based on the article you are circulating. Second, Google executives have been supportive of the work and institutions relevant to the preservation of computing's history. I have personal, first hand knowledge of that. So why irritate the firm that is on your side?
If you are concerned, first we would need to validate what the article says, second we should query Google quietly about the matter to see if in fact they are evil to us, or, as I suspect is more the case, other issues have impinged on access that we are not aware of. Google decisions makers saying grace over the site might not even be aware of the discomfort they are creating for historians and therefore might be willing to help us out. Perhaps a couple of representatives of SHOT or SIGCIS should reach out to Google in a calm, collected manner?
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 1:31 PM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org <mailto:aek@bitsavers.org>> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org <mailto:members@sigcis.org>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu <mailto:jcortada@umn.edu> 608-274-6382
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- Henry Lowood Curator for History of Science & Technology Collections; Film & Media Collections HSSG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall Stanford University Libraries, Stanford CA 94305-6004 650-723-4602; lowood@stanford.edu; http://www.stanford.edu/~lowood
I agree with Jim’s view. Vint Cerf, for one, is well placed at Google, and passionately last time I heard about all forms of accurate Internet history. Plus he got Google to pony up $1M per year for the ACM Turing Award. I don’t know him or this issue well enough to be the conduit, but he’d be my recommendation for where to start. On Feb 26, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
I do know him, or more importantly, Vint Cerf knows who I am, and reads and responds to my emails. Let me see what I can do. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Chuck House <housec1839@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Jim’s view. Vint Cerf, for one, is well placed at Google, and passionately last time I heard about all forms of accurate Internet history. Plus he got Google to pony up $1M per year for the ACM Turing Award. I don’t know him or this issue well enough to be the conduit, but he’d be my recommendation for where to start.
On Feb 26, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion
list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
FYI I have sent email. Please recognize that I work at Google but not for Google, and I am not authorized to speak on the company's behalf without express permission. Also, Google (indirectly) pays my mortgage, and I like sleeping indoors. I will let this group know what I can, when I can, even if it's null. Further, I would appreciate it if this was not disseminated to a larger forum, e.g., ClassicCmp. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Ian S. King <isking@uw.edu> wrote:
I do know him, or more importantly, Vint Cerf knows who I am, and reads and responds to my emails. Let me see what I can do.
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Chuck House <housec1839@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Jim’s view. Vint Cerf, for one, is well placed at Google, and passionately last time I heard about all forms of accurate Internet history. Plus he got Google to pony up $1M per year for the ACM Turing Award. I don’t know him or this issue well enough to be the conduit, but he’d be my recommendation for where to start.
On Feb 26, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion
list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
This matter is being investigated. That's all I can say for now. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Ian S. King <isking@uw.edu> wrote:
FYI I have sent email. Please recognize that I work at Google but not for Google, and I am not authorized to speak on the company's behalf without express permission. Also, Google (indirectly) pays my mortgage, and I like sleeping indoors. I will let this group know what I can, when I can, even if it's null. Further, I would appreciate it if this was not disseminated to a larger forum, e.g., ClassicCmp.
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Ian S. King <isking@uw.edu> wrote:
I do know him, or more importantly, Vint Cerf knows who I am, and reads and responds to my emails. Let me see what I can do.
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Chuck House <housec1839@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Jim’s view. Vint Cerf, for one, is well placed at Google, and passionately last time I heard about all forms of accurate Internet history. Plus he got Google to pony up $1M per year for the ACM Turing Award. I don’t know him or this issue well enough to be the conduit, but he’d be my recommendation for where to start.
On Feb 26, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion
list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
Exactly. I am sure if there is an issue with accessing material that the Google folks will sort it out. Thanks Ian for stepping in to help. On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Ian S. King <isking@uw.edu> wrote:
FYI I have sent email. Please recognize that I work at Google but not for Google, and I am not authorized to speak on the company's behalf without express permission. Also, Google (indirectly) pays my mortgage, and I like sleeping indoors. I will let this group know what I can, when I can, even if it's null. Further, I would appreciate it if this was not disseminated to a larger forum, e.g., ClassicCmp.
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 3:09 PM, Ian S. King <isking@uw.edu> wrote:
I do know him, or more importantly, Vint Cerf knows who I am, and reads and responds to my emails. Let me see what I can do.
On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 8:10 AM, Chuck House <housec1839@gmail.com> wrote:
I agree with Jim’s view. Vint Cerf, for one, is well placed at Google, and passionately last time I heard about all forms of accurate Internet history. Plus he got Google to pony up $1M per year for the ACM Turing Award. I don’t know him or this issue well enough to be the conduit, but he’d be my recommendation for where to start.
On Feb 26, 2015, at 11:31 AM, Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> wrote:
Time to complain LOUDLY to Google about this!
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/google-a-search-company-has-made-its-intern...
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion
list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
-- Ian S. King, MSIS, MSCS Ph.D. Candidate The Information School University of Washington
There is an old Vulcan saying: "Only Nixon could go to China."
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
participants (5)
-
Al Kossow -
Chuck House -
Henry Lowood -
Ian S. King -
jcortada University of Minnesota