-----Original Message----- From: Tom Van Vleck [mailto:thvv@multicians.org] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:38 To: Bob Frankston Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history The history of computer security has been extensively studied. have them start with http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/ Many "historians" are only interested in information that is in hardbound books, preferably written by other "historians." Most of these books pick some story, and then pick facts that support the story. z/OS is a descendant of CP/CMS. Googling suggests z/OS probably has been hacked, just not in the world view of guys from Compuware. The phrase "digital pearl harbor" belongs to the History of Hype which is also worth studying, but is only tangentially related to computer security. On Mar 11, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Bob Frankston wrote:
Multics again ... perhaps I should also forward this to Jerry Saltzer
-----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of William McMillan Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 18:04 To: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history
Jon, et al.
There might be some value in looking into the history of Multics, the IBM System/360, and DEC VAX/VMS. These were systems built from the ground up with security in mind, even at the hardware level for address-space protection.
I'm sure there are other good cases, but these come to mind.
I believe that Peter J. Denning's work on operating systems would also be related.
We had a mainframe guy from Compuware come in recently to talk to students about current mainframes, which amount almost totally to the IBM z Systems, descendants of the 360/370. When someone asked about security, he said forget about it. No one's ever hacked a z System.
There's this whole, heavy-duty, bullet-proof world of hyper-secure systems, and then the swamps and tangles most of us live in that evolved from Unix, MS-DOS, the 8086, the Mac OS and other jury-rigged OSs and hardware architectures.
- Bill
On 3/11/12, Jon Lindsay <jrlindsay@ucsd.edu> wrote:
Hello all, I have the feeling that the history of computer security, from hacking techniques to the evolution of the information security industry to fearmongering over cybersecurity, is a somewhat understudied area. I have seen some work on the development of government policy and threat framing (i.e., by Myriam Dunn Cavelty) but I'm less aware of anything on the evolution of the technical and industrial dark arts. If there is some good work out there, I would love to see it. Bonus points if you can tell me when the awful phrase "digital pearl harbor" first appeared! Cheers, Jon
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Thank you, Tom, for your comments. Your use of quotes around the word "historian" at first bothered me; then by coincidence a few minutes later I saw an obituary in the New York Times today for Peter Novick, a historian at the University of Chicago. His book, "That Noble Dream" (Cambridge 1988) challenged the notion of whether historians can ever be objective, no matter what primary or secondary sources they use. Paul E. Ceruzzi Chair, Division of Space History National Air & Space Museum MRC 311; PO Box 37012 Washington, DC 20013-7012 202-633-2414 <http://www.nasm.si.edu/staffDetail.cfm?staffID=24> -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of SIGCOS@bobf.frankston.com Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:54 AM To: 'sigcis' Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] FW: computer security history -----Original Message----- From: Tom Van Vleck [mailto:thvv@multicians.org] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:38 To: Bob Frankston Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history The history of computer security has been extensively studied. have them start with http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/ Many "historians" are only interested in information that is in hardbound books, preferably written by other "historians." Most of these books pick some story, and then pick facts that support the story. z/OS is a descendant of CP/CMS. Googling suggests z/OS probably has been hacked, just not in the world view of guys from Compuware. The phrase "digital pearl harbor" belongs to the History of Hype which is also worth studying, but is only tangentially related to computer security. On Mar 11, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Bob Frankston wrote:
Multics again ... perhaps I should also forward this to Jerry Saltzer
-----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of William McMillan Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 18:04 To: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history
Jon, et al.
There might be some value in looking into the history of Multics, the IBM System/360, and DEC VAX/VMS. These were systems built from the ground up with security in mind, even at the hardware level for address-space protection.
I'm sure there are other good cases, but these come to mind.
I believe that Peter J. Denning's work on operating systems would also be related.
We had a mainframe guy from Compuware come in recently to talk to students about current mainframes, which amount almost totally to the IBM z Systems, descendants of the 360/370. When someone asked about security, he said forget about it. No one's ever hacked a z System.
There's this whole, heavy-duty, bullet-proof world of hyper-secure systems, and then the swamps and tangles most of us live in that evolved from Unix, MS-DOS, the 8086, the Mac OS and other jury-rigged OSs and hardware architectures.
- Bill
On 3/11/12, Jon Lindsay <jrlindsay@ucsd.edu> wrote:
Hello all, I have the feeling that the history of computer security, from hacking techniques to the evolution of the information security industry to fearmongering over cybersecurity, is a somewhat understudied area. I have seen some work on the development of government policy and threat framing (i.e., by Myriam Dunn Cavelty) but I'm less aware of anything on the evolution of the technical and industrial dark arts. If there is some good work out there, I would love to see it. Bonus points if you can tell me when the awful phrase "digital pearl harbor" first appeared! Cheers, Jon
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Ah… This may be true for "historians" (and we know quite a few). Not for historians, who use and cross-examine multiple sources, in addition to hardbound books: Dustbound archives, staplebound journals, spiderbound vintage computers, interviews with pioneers of the field. And even websites. Best, Pierre Mounier-Kuhn Le 14 mars 12 à 13:53, <SIGCOS@bobf.frankston.com> a écrit :
-----Original Message----- From: Tom Van Vleck [mailto:thvv@multicians.org] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:38 To: Bob Frankston Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history
The history of computer security has been extensively studied. have them start with http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/
Many "historians" are only interested in information that is in hardbound books, preferably written by other "historians." Most of these books pick some story, and then pick facts that support the story.
z/OS is a descendant of CP/CMS. Googling suggests z/OS probably has been hacked, just not in the world view of guys from Compuware.
The phrase "digital pearl harbor" belongs to the History of Hype which is also worth studying, but is only tangentially related to computer security.
On Mar 11, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Bob Frankston wrote:
Multics again ... perhaps I should also forward this to Jerry Saltzer
-----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members- bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of William McMillan Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 18:04 To: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history
Jon, et al.
There might be some value in looking into the history of Multics, the IBM System/360, and DEC VAX/VMS. These were systems built from the ground up with security in mind, even at the hardware level for address-space protection.
I'm sure there are other good cases, but these come to mind.
I believe that Peter J. Denning's work on operating systems would also be related.
We had a mainframe guy from Compuware come in recently to talk to students about current mainframes, which amount almost totally to the IBM z Systems, descendants of the 360/370. When someone asked about security, he said forget about it. No one's ever hacked a z System.
There's this whole, heavy-duty, bullet-proof world of hyper-secure systems, and then the swamps and tangles most of us live in that evolved from Unix, MS-DOS, the 8086, the Mac OS and other jury-rigged OSs and hardware architectures.
- Bill
On 3/11/12, Jon Lindsay <jrlindsay@ucsd.edu> wrote:
Hello all, I have the feeling that the history of computer security, from hacking techniques to the evolution of the information security industry to fearmongering over cybersecurity, is a somewhat understudied area. I have seen some work on the development of government policy and threat framing (i.e., by Myriam Dunn Cavelty) but I'm less aware of anything on the evolution of the technical and industrial dark arts. If there is some good work out there, I would love to see it. Bonus points if you can tell me when the awful phrase "digital pearl harbor" first appeared! Cheers, Jon
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
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"Googling suggests z/OS probably has been hacked, just not in the world view of guys from Compuware." Of course whether a particular system has been hacked is not the issue. I mention systems like Multics, the IBM System/360, and VMS to point out how much relatively advanced design and implementation had been done in computer security long before concerns were raised or discussed by people outside of the computing professions. And I'll buy dinner for anyone who can hack into the mainframes at Compuware, Auto-Owners Insurance, Blue-Cross-Blue-Shield, Trintity Health, or any other modern firm that depends on these platforms for doing "real" computing. - Bill On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 8:53 AM, <SIGCOS@bobf.frankston.com> wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Tom Van Vleck [mailto:thvv@multicians.org] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 12:38 To: Bob Frankston Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history
The history of computer security has been extensively studied. have them start with http://csrc.nist.gov/publications/history/
Many "historians" are only interested in information that is in hardbound books, preferably written by other "historians." Most of these books pick some story, and then pick facts that support the story.
z/OS is a descendant of CP/CMS. Googling suggests z/OS probably has been hacked, just not in the world view of guys from Compuware.
The phrase "digital pearl harbor" belongs to the History of Hype which is also worth studying, but is only tangentially related to computer security.
On Mar 11, 2012, at 10:40 PM, Bob Frankston wrote:
Multics again ... perhaps I should also forward this to Jerry Saltzer
-----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of William McMillan Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 18:04 To: members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] computer security history
Jon, et al.
There might be some value in looking into the history of Multics, the IBM System/360, and DEC VAX/VMS. These were systems built from the ground up with security in mind, even at the hardware level for address-space protection.
I'm sure there are other good cases, but these come to mind.
I believe that Peter J. Denning's work on operating systems would also be related.
We had a mainframe guy from Compuware come in recently to talk to students about current mainframes, which amount almost totally to the IBM z Systems, descendants of the 360/370. When someone asked about security, he said forget about it. No one's ever hacked a z System.
There's this whole, heavy-duty, bullet-proof world of hyper-secure systems, and then the swamps and tangles most of us live in that evolved from Unix, MS-DOS, the 8086, the Mac OS and other jury-rigged OSs and hardware architectures.
- Bill
On 3/11/12, Jon Lindsay <jrlindsay@ucsd.edu> wrote:
Hello all, I have the feeling that the history of computer security, from hacking techniques to the evolution of the information security industry to fearmongering over cybersecurity, is a somewhat understudied area. I have seen some work on the development of government policy and threat framing (i.e., by Myriam Dunn Cavelty) but I'm less aware of anything on the evolution of the technical and industrial dark arts. If there is some good work out there, I would love to see it. Bonus points if you can tell me when the awful phrase "digital pearl harbor" first appeared! Cheers, Jon
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
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participants (4)
-
Ceruzzi, Paul -
Pierre Mounier -
SIGCOS＠bobf.frankston.com -
William McMillan