Thanks Ramesh, Speaking as the actual Thomas Haigh, chair of the real SIGCIS, rather than in my Colbertian persona as the head of an evil cabal, here's what I think. First, this is a discussion list and we discuss things related to the history of computing. The list has some acceptable use policies at http://www.sigcis.org/node/14, which have not been reviewed for many years. These suggest that once an open ended discussion develops it should be moved to specialized sublists (which, long story short, we do not currently have the ability to create) or to the comments section on SIGCIS blog posts rather than continuing indefinitely on the main list. We tried enforcing that policy, but discussions tended to die when we moved them onto the blog. So Ramesh's position is perfectly reasonable. We should probably revisit those policies in the light of experiences with discussion flareups like this one and in the light of new technologies. As a newly minted SIG VC of Communications Ramesh is well placed to contribute to that. Second, SIGCIS has no institutional position at this time on the Morozov/Medina matter. We welcome all opinions. Janet Browne posted here and is welcome to post again. Dave Walden spoke up against a rush to judgment. SIGCIS is not a lynch mob. On the other hand, as Bill McMillan just pointed out, some things are hard to discuss in the abstract. Telling details can tell a lot. Third, I think we have a greater chance of a productive discussion here than on twitter. I don't tweet myself, and hashtag activism can come a little too close to mob rule for my tastes. I like longer, more thoughtful messages. I'd particularly like to see long, thoughtful messages from anyone who can provide specific evidence on best practices in acknowledgement for venues such as the New Yorker. This last paragraph is a personal opinion: It's quite true that there are real challenge involved in trying to straddle the roles of public intellectual, highbrow journalist, and scholar. We should continue to discuss those challenges. Morozov accepted them willingly, and as some have noted is providing a teachable lesson in what can go wrong. I am personally concerned primarily by Morozov's refusal in his Tumblr messages and tweets to give one inch or find anything less than optimal in the text of his published article. As Lee Vinsel's blog posts show, his responses have been aggressive and sarcastic. Doubling down on his own infallibility is a risky course of action. His initial Tumblr response could have outlined his original sources for some parts of the article, reminded us that the New Yorker is not a scholarly journal, and then apologized that in the to-and-fro with the copyeditor he had inadvertently moved his sole remaining acknowledgement too far down and failed to protest the deletion of language signposting it as a review. Had he made a simple admission of doing a difficult job less than perfectly then I am confident he would be receiving only a small fraction of the antipathy currently being directed towards him. It's the ugly subtext of his Tumblr responses and tweets that moved me to parody. Best wishes, Tom -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of Subramanian, Ramesh Prof. Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 10:37 AM To: dave.walden.family@gmail.com; members@sigcis.org Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] @EvgenyMorozov @NewYorker #ShowUsTheMissingPages I agree with Dave that we attempt to take the high road, and stick to discussing publishing ethics in the abstract on the SIGCIS mailing list. I understand the frustrations of those historians who feel slighted, overlooked and brushed off. Those who have been called out by name can definitely respond to specifics. But intense personal viewpoints are probably better expressed on personal blogs, with links provided on the SIGCIS mailing list for those interested in following up. -Ramesh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Ramesh Subramanian, Ph.D. Gabriel Ferrucci Professor of Computer Information Systems Quinnipiac University Hamden, CT 06518. Phone: 203-582-5276 Email: ramesh.subramanian@quinnipiac.edu Web: Ramesh Subramanian's web page & Visiting Fellow, Information Society Project Yale Law School New Haven, CT 06511 Email: ramesh.subramanian@yale.edu Web: http://www.law.yale.edu/intellectuallife/9841.htm Recent books: Access to Knowledge in India: New Research on Intellectual Property, Innovation and Development (Bloomsbury Academic, 2011) The Global Flow of Information: Legal, Social and Cultural Perspectives (NYU Press, 2011) "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" Mahatma Gandhi -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of dave.walden.family@gmail.com Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 11:16 AM To: members@sigcis.org Subject: QU Spamtrap [Score:5.0] Re: [SIGCIS-Members] @EvgenyMorozov @NewYorker #ShowUsTheMissingPages Am I the only one who thinks this is getting out of hand. It seems to me there is a rush to convict the author based on second hand knowledge or to try him in an ad hoc court ("produce the evidence") which could lead to destroying his career, if that hasn't happened already regardless of what he says now. Perhaps his university or the magazine which have more first hand facts should decide if there is a problem. I think it is fine to discuss publishing ethics on this list in the abstract or with example's whose validity have been historically established. I'd rather this list wasn't a forum for what seems increasingly to me like savaging people's reputations in the guise of an ethics discussion. _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members