As a practitioner, not a historian, I can't debate the details of the creation of COBOL. But I joined Bob Bemer's group in IBM's Data Processing Division in February, 1960 (Roy Goldfinger was part of that group). IBM had designed COMTRAN as the counterpart of FORTRAN and planned to make the language available for use by any manufacturer or user company just as it had with FORTRAN. The IBM people felt that COMTRAN was a consistent language and was superior to COBOL and continued to plan to implement COMTRAN compilers in 1960. But, as I recall, the pressure from DoD particularly was too strong and therefore IBM made a marketing decision to drop COMTRAN and only support COBOL, in spite of what IBM perceived as its deficiencies. I was not privy to the debates within the CODASYL committee, only to what I heard from Bob Bemer and Roy Goldfinger (and other members of Bemer's team), about how the final decisions were made,,,but I had a strong impression that the other manufacturers (Univac, RCA, Honeywell and others) were not willing to have IBM be the "owner" of the commercial language as it was of the scientific language. There is no doubt in my mind that Grace Hopper believed that COBOL was principally based on her work at Univac (she is quoted in many interviews to that effect including at least one on the Computer History Museum website) and, barring any forensic analysis that provesd otherwise, I expect that is as close to the truth as we will get now that so many of the CODASYL participants have died and probably have not left detailed records of the committee deliberations. Burt Grad
Hi: I don’t have the time or energy to read the entirety of Jean Sammet’s “The Early History of COBOL” (In “The History of Programming Languages”, Academic Press, 1981, pages 199-277) but even a quick glance at this shows Grace Hopper’s footprints all over the COBOL project. Some quotes I particularly noted: “In my view, Grace Hopper did more than any other single individual to sell the concept of higher level languages from both a technical and administrative viewpoint" [Applause] - from Jean Sammet’s introduction to Grace Hopper, the conference keynote speaker (page 6) “It is beyond the scope of this paper to do even a superficial study of all the work that precedes COBOL. However, it is worth noting the preliminary definition of a data processing compiler by Grace Hopper (1955) which contains the following two crucial sentences as part of the description of the compilation process. ‘in the case of a *verb*, the catalog entry will lead to a generator or subroutine and its satellite routines in a volume of the library. In the case of a *noun*, the catalog entry will lead to a standard item design and its satellite routines in a volume of the library.’ In my opinion, these sentences are crucial, since they point the way to a data description that is separate from the executable code.” (page 217) “A key point in the development of any language is to see what influenced it . . . The major influences [on COBOL] were the two languages - FLOW-MATIC from Remington Rand Univac done under Grace Hopper’s direction - Commercial Translator being done at IBM by a group under the general leadership of Ray Goldfinger, who was working for Bob Bemer at the time.” (pages 247-248) I have no doubt that Grace Hopper was one of the major contributors to the whole COBOL project. Cheers Brian Randell School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/staff/profile/brian.randell
The phrase I have seen repeatedly to clarify this point is that Hopper should be remembered as the "Grandmother of COBOL" rather than the "Mother of COBOL." That fits with what Brian is quoting -- that she pioneer high level language technology and promoted its particular applicability to business data processing. That would not be the same thing as leading the COBOL effort or designing the language, though she did push for its adoption. In GoTo, Steve Lohr quotes Sammet on page 52 as saying Hopper was "not the mother, creator, or developer of COBOL." Lohr reports on the same page that Dan McCraken was told by Hopper herself to call her the "grandmother of COBOL" rather than its mother. Tom -----Original Message----- From: members-bounces@sigcis.org [mailto:members-bounces@sigcis.org] On Behalf Of Brian Randell Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 12:39 PM To: Sigcis Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] COBOL history Hi: I don't have the time or energy to read the entirety of Jean Sammet's "The Early History of COBOL" (In "The History of Programming Languages", Academic Press, 1981, pages 199-277) but even a quick glance at this shows Grace Hopper's footprints all over the COBOL project. Some quotes I particularly noted: "In my view, Grace Hopper did more than any other single individual to sell the concept of higher level languages from both a technical and administrative viewpoint" [Applause] - from Jean Sammet's introduction to Grace Hopper, the conference keynote speaker (page 6) "It is beyond the scope of this paper to do even a superficial study of all the work that precedes COBOL. However, it is worth noting the preliminary definition of a data processing compiler by Grace Hopper (1955) which contains the following two crucial sentences as part of the description of the compilation process. 'in the case of a *verb*, the catalog entry will lead to a generator or subroutine and its satellite routines in a volume of the library. In the case of a *noun*, the catalog entry will lead to a standard item design and its satellite routines in a volume of the library.' In my opinion, these sentences are crucial, since they point the way to a data description that is separate from the executable code." (page 217) "A key point in the development of any language is to see what influenced it . . . The major influences [on COBOL] were the two languages - FLOW-MATIC from Remington Rand Univac done under Grace Hopper's direction - Commercial Translator being done at IBM by a group under the general leadership of Ray Goldfinger, who was working for Bob Bemer at the time." (pages 247-248) I have no doubt that Grace Hopper was one of the major contributors to the whole COBOL project. Cheers Brian Randell School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/staff/profile/brian.randell _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Let me clarify. I certainly wouldn't deny that Grace Hopper was a major influence on the development (and even existence) of COBOL, both through her proselytizing for high-level languages and through her own production of the first business programming language. But to credit her with single-handedly creating COBOL, and not even mention the six people on the subcommittee that did the actual work (including Sammet), is not only a distortion but goes against Isaacson's professed aim to show that innovation comes from collaboration and not lone heroic inventors. (It's also an odd choice because two of the six committee members were women, which would have reinforced his women-in-computing theme.) To me this is one of those "Edison invented the lightbulb" memes that is not completely unrelated to historical events, but is not strictly true, either. best, Janet On Oct 6, 2014, at 1:39 07PM, Brian Randell wrote:
Hi:
I don’t have the time or energy to read the entirety of Jean Sammet’s “The Early History of COBOL” (In “The History of Programming Languages”, Academic Press, 1981, pages 199-277) but even a quick glance at this shows Grace Hopper’s footprints all over the COBOL project.
Some quotes I particularly noted:
“In my view, Grace Hopper did more than any other single individual to sell the concept of higher level languages from both a technical and administrative viewpoint" [Applause] - from Jean Sammet’s introduction to Grace Hopper, the conference keynote speaker (page 6)
“It is beyond the scope of this paper to do even a superficial study of all the work that precedes COBOL. However, it is worth noting the preliminary definition of a data processing compiler by Grace Hopper (1955) which contains the following two crucial sentences as part of the description of the compilation process. ‘in the case of a *verb*, the catalog entry will lead to a generator or subroutine and its satellite routines in a volume of the library. In the case of a *noun*, the catalog entry will lead to a standard item design and its satellite routines in a volume of the library.’ In my opinion, these sentences are crucial, since they point the way to a data description that is separate from the executable code.” (page 217)
“A key point in the development of any language is to see what influenced it . . . The major influences [on COBOL] were the two languages - FLOW-MATIC from Remington Rand Univac done under Grace Hopper’s direction - Commercial Translator being done at IBM by a group under the general leadership of Ray Goldfinger, who was working for Bob Bemer at the time.” (pages 247-248)
I have no doubt that Grace Hopper was one of the major contributors to the whole COBOL project.
Cheers
Brian Randell
School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/staff/profile/brian.randell
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
Hi Janet: No problem. I’m sure we’re in violent agreement. Let me recount one little GH incident. After my book “The Origins of Digital Computers: Selected Papers” was published back in the 70s I sent it in turn to a number of the authors represented, asking them to add their signatures. (I stopped after a while, not being willing to risk the growing set of famous signatures to the transatlantic post yet again.) Grace Hopper was one of the people I asked, because of the paper that she had co-authored with Howard Aiken. When she returned my book, it was with a very nice cover letter, which said that since Howard Aiken had sadly passed away (in fact not long earlier) she was enclosing for me in lieu a wartime leave certificate that he had signed authorising her to pay a visit to Vassar College. What a kind and thoughtful lady! Cheers Brian On 6 Oct 2014, at 19:13, Janet Abbate <abbate@VT.EDU> wrote:
Let me clarify. I certainly wouldn't deny that Grace Hopper was a major influence on the development (and even existence) of COBOL, both through her proselytizing for high-level languages and through her own production of the first business programming language. But to credit her with single-handedly creating COBOL, and not even mention the six people on the subcommittee that did the actual work (including Sammet), is not only a distortion but goes against Isaacson's professed aim to show that innovation comes from collaboration and not lone heroic inventors. (It's also an odd choice because two of the six committee members were women, which would have reinforced his women-in-computing theme.)
To me this is one of those "Edison invented the lightbulb" memes that is not completely unrelated to historical events, but is not strictly true, either.
best, Janet
On Oct 6, 2014, at 1:39 07PM, Brian Randell wrote:
Hi:
I don’t have the time or energy to read the entirety of Jean Sammet’s “The Early History of COBOL” (In “The History of Programming Languages”, Academic Press, 1981, pages 199-277) but even a quick glance at this shows Grace Hopper’s footprints all over the COBOL project.
Some quotes I particularly noted:
“In my view, Grace Hopper did more than any other single individual to sell the concept of higher level languages from both a technical and administrative viewpoint" [Applause] - from Jean Sammet’s introduction to Grace Hopper, the conference keynote speaker (page 6)
“It is beyond the scope of this paper to do even a superficial study of all the work that precedes COBOL. However, it is worth noting the preliminary definition of a data processing compiler by Grace Hopper (1955) which contains the following two crucial sentences as part of the description of the compilation process. ‘in the case of a *verb*, the catalog entry will lead to a generator or subroutine and its satellite routines in a volume of the library. In the case of a *noun*, the catalog entry will lead to a standard item design and its satellite routines in a volume of the library.’ In my opinion, these sentences are crucial, since they point the way to a data description that is separate from the executable code.” (page 217)
“A key point in the development of any language is to see what influenced it . . . The major influences [on COBOL] were the two languages - FLOW-MATIC from Remington Rand Univac done under Grace Hopper’s direction - Commercial Translator being done at IBM by a group under the general leadership of Ray Goldfinger, who was working for Bob Bemer at the time.” (pages 247-248)
I have no doubt that Grace Hopper was one of the major contributors to the whole COBOL project.
Cheers
Brian Randell
School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 208 7923 URL = http://www.ncl.ac.uk/computing/staff/profile/brian.randell
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_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members@sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://sigcis.org/pipermail/members/ and you can change your subscription options at http://sigcis.org/mailman/listinfo/members
-- School of Computing Science, Newcastle University, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE1 7RU, UK EMAIL = Brian.Randell@ncl.ac.uk PHONE = +44 191 222 7923 FAX = +44 191 222 8232 URL = http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/people/brian.randell
participants (4)
-
Brian Randell -
Burtgrad＠aol.com -
Janet Abbate -
Thomas Haigh