Invention of the concept of process
Hi, Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when? Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday! -- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context. On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Hi,
Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when?
Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday!
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Hi,
Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when?
Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday!
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
"..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..." Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system? Or is the topic more broad than that? Bill ________________________________________ From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM To: James Cortada Cc: SIGCIS Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Hi,
Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when?
Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday!
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci :
"..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..."
Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system?
Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question.
Or is the topic more broad than that?
Bill
________________________________________ From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM To: James Cortada Cc: SIGCIS Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Hi,
Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when?
Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday!
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
Hasn’t there been great debate about when the first "stored program" was accomplished? Some said on Maniac by Metropolis but others disagree I think. If that is what you are looking for I am pretty sure it was well before CTSS or Multics. I think CTSS and Multics were in pursuit of time sharing (or multiple stored programs). I think the first implementation of process pipes might have been Demos but that was way after CTSS days. Gary On 12/29/18, 8:37 PM, "Members on behalf of Laurent Bloch" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote: Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci : > "..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..." > > Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system? Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question. > Or is the topic more broad than that? > > Bill > > ________________________________________ > From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM > To: James Cortada > Cc: SIGCIS > Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process > > Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci : > > > It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if > > interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century > > and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If > > in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think > > of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and > > techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for > > context. > > Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks. > > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, > > > and when? > > > > > > Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday! > > > > > > -- > > > Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org > > > Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! > > > (A. Lincoln) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion > > > list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member > > > posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list > > > archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and > > > you can change your subscription options at > > > http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org > > > > > > > > -- > > James W. Cortada > > Senior Research Fellow > > Charles Babbage Institute > > University of Minnesota > > jcortada@umn.edu > > 608-274-6382 > > > -- > Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org > Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! > (A. Lincoln) -- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
Le dimanche 30 décembre 2018 Grider, Gary Alan a écrit ceci :
Hasn’t there been great debate about when the first "stored program" was accomplished? Some said on Maniac by Metropolis but others disagree I think.
I would say that the concept of a process may appear when there are more than one program, potentially ready to execute, and in competition to access the processor.
If that is what you are looking for I am pretty sure it was well before CTSS or Multics. I think CTSS and Multics were in pursuit of time sharing (or multiple stored programs). I think the first implementation of process pipes might have been Demos but that was way after CTSS days.
Gary
On 12/29/18, 8:37 PM, "Members on behalf of Laurent Bloch" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci :
> "..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..." > > Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system?
Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question.
> Or is the topic more broad than that? > > Bill > > ________________________________________ > From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM > To: James Cortada > Cc: SIGCIS > Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process > > Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci : > > > It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if > > interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century > > and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If > > in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think > > of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and > > techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for > > context. > > Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks. > > > On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, > > > and when? > > > > > > Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday! > > > > > > -- > > > Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org > > > Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! > > > (A. Lincoln) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion > > > list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member > > > posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list > > > archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and > > > you can change your subscription options at > > > http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org > > > > > > > > -- > > James W. Cortada > > Senior Research Fellow > > Charles Babbage Institute > > University of Minnesota > > jcortada@umn.edu > > 608-274-6382 > > > -- > Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org > Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! > (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
Laurent, Edsger Dijkstra’s “Cooperating Sequential Processes" (EWD123) was written in 1965 (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd01xx/EWD123.PDF). His original paper on semaphores (EWD35) was written in Dutch several years before that (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD00xx/EWD35.html). By 1965, the term process was becoming fairly well-known in operating systems circles. For example, in a paper presented in 1965, Jack Dennis wrote: Processes. We consider that the system hardware comprises one or more processors, which we can identify as being distinct from the main memory, the file storage devices and the input/output devices. Each processor is capable of executing algorithms that are specified by sequences of instructions. A process is a locus of control within an instruction sequence. That is, a process is that abstract entity which moves through the instructions of a procedure as the procedure is executed by a processor. This is from: Jack B. Dennis and Earl C. Van Horn. 1966. Programming semantics for multiprogrammed computations. Commun. ACM 9, 3 (March 1966), 143-155. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/365230.365252 Paul
On Dec 29, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le dimanche 30 décembre 2018 Grider, Gary Alan a écrit ceci :
Hasn’t there been great debate about when the first "stored program" was accomplished? Some said on Maniac by Metropolis but others disagree I think.
I would say that the concept of a process may appear when there are more than one program, potentially ready to execute, and in competition to access the processor.
If that is what you are looking for I am pretty sure it was well before CTSS or Multics. I think CTSS and Multics were in pursuit of time sharing (or multiple stored programs). I think the first implementation of process pipes might have been Demos but that was way after CTSS days.
Gary
On 12/29/18, 8:37 PM, "Members on behalf of Laurent Bloch" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci :
"..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..."
Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system?
Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question.
Or is the topic more broad than that?
Bill
________________________________________ From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM To: James Cortada Cc: SIGCIS Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Hi,
Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when?
Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday!
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net <https://laurentbloch.net/> - lb@laurentbloch.org <mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org> Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
Thank you for your answer, Paul. When we think about processes, of course the names of Dijkstra and Hoare come to the mind, but I believe they had precursors, before semaphores and communicating sequential processes. And 1965 seems a bit too late for the birth of the process. Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 Paul McJones a écrit ceci :
Laurent,
Edsger Dijkstra’s “Cooperating Sequential Processes" (EWD123) was written in 1965 (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd01xx/EWD123.PDF). His original paper on semaphores (EWD35) was written in Dutch several years before that (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD00xx/EWD35.html).
By 1965, the term process was becoming fairly well-known in operating systems circles. For example, in a paper presented in 1965, Jack Dennis wrote:
Processes. We consider that the system hardware comprises one or more processors, which we can identify as being distinct from the main memory, the file storage devices and the input/output devices. Each processor is capable of executing algorithms that are specified by sequences of instructions. A process is a locus of control within an instruction sequence. That is, a process is that abstract entity which moves through the instructions of a procedure as the procedure is executed by a processor.
This is from: Jack B. Dennis and Earl C. Van Horn. 1966. Programming semantics for multiprogrammed computations. Commun. ACM 9, 3 (March 1966), 143-155. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/365230.365252
Paul
On Dec 29, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le dimanche 30 décembre 2018 Grider, Gary Alan a écrit ceci :
Hasn’t there been great debate about when the first "stored program" was accomplished? Some said on Maniac by Metropolis but others disagree I think.
I would say that the concept of a process may appear when there are more than one program, potentially ready to execute, and in competition to access the processor.
If that is what you are looking for I am pretty sure it was well before CTSS or Multics. I think CTSS and Multics were in pursuit of time sharing (or multiple stored programs). I think the first implementation of process pipes might have been Demos but that was way after CTSS days.
Gary
On 12/29/18, 8:37 PM, "Members on behalf of Laurent Bloch" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci :
"..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..."
Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system?
Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question.
Or is the topic more broad than that?
Bill
________________________________________ From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM To: James Cortada Cc: SIGCIS Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Hi,
Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, and when?
Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday!
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net <https://laurentbloch.net/> - lb@laurentbloch.org <mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org> Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
IBM’s Stretch project was considering multiprogramming in the late 1950s, but for example Ted Codd’s 1960 paper: E. F. Codd. 1960. Multiprogram scheduling: parts 1 and 2. introduction and theory. Commun. ACM 3, 6 (June 1960), 347-350. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/367297.367317 focussed on the problem of resource optimiztion rather than on the programming abstraction. Early timesharing work such as CTSS tended to present the idea of a virtualized physical computer, but didn’t necessarily provide a programming interface for creating, destroying, controlling, and communicating with processes. I believe these ideas were “simmering” in the minds of a number of people during the late 1950s and early 1960s.
On Dec 29, 2018, at 8:39 PM, Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Thank you for your answer, Paul. When we think about processes, of course the names of Dijkstra and Hoare come to the mind, but I believe they had precursors, before semaphores and communicating sequential processes. And 1965 seems a bit too late for the birth of the process.
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 Paul McJones a écrit ceci :
Laurent,
Edsger Dijkstra’s “Cooperating Sequential Processes" (EWD123) was written in 1965 (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd01xx/EWD123.PDF). His original paper on semaphores (EWD35) was written in Dutch several years before that (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD00xx/EWD35.html).
By 1965, the term process was becoming fairly well-known in operating systems circles. For example, in a paper presented in 1965, Jack Dennis wrote:
Processes. We consider that the system hardware comprises one or more processors, which we can identify as being distinct from the main memory, the file storage devices and the input/output devices. Each processor is capable of executing algorithms that are specified by sequences of instructions. A process is a locus of control within an instruction sequence. That is, a process is that abstract entity which moves through the instructions of a procedure as the procedure is executed by a processor.
This is from: Jack B. Dennis and Earl C. Van Horn. 1966. Programming semantics for multiprogrammed computations. Commun. ACM 9, 3 (March 1966), 143-155. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/365230.365252
Paul
On Dec 29, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le dimanche 30 décembre 2018 Grider, Gary Alan a écrit ceci :
Hasn’t there been great debate about when the first "stored program" was accomplished? Some said on Maniac by Metropolis but others disagree I think.
I would say that the concept of a process may appear when there are more than one program, potentially ready to execute, and in competition to access the processor.
If that is what you are looking for I am pretty sure it was well before CTSS or Multics. I think CTSS and Multics were in pursuit of time sharing (or multiple stored programs). I think the first implementation of process pipes might have been Demos but that was way after CTSS days.
Gary
On 12/29/18, 8:37 PM, "Members on behalf of Laurent Bloch" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci :
"..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..."
Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system?
Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question.
Or is the topic more broad than that?
Bill
________________________________________ From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM To: James Cortada Cc: SIGCIS Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
> Hi, > > Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, > and when? > > Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday! > > -- > Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org > Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! > (A. Lincoln) > _______________________________________________ > This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion > list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member > posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list > archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and > you can change your subscription options at > http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- James W. Cortada Senior Research Fellow Charles Babbage Institute University of Minnesota jcortada@umn.edu 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net <https://laurentbloch.net/> <https://laurentbloch.net/ <https://laurentbloch.net/>> - lb@laurentbloch.org <mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org><mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org <mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org>> Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org <http://sigcis.org/>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ <http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/> and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org <http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org>
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net <https://laurentbloch.net/> - lb@laurentbloch.org <mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org> Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
Depends on what you mean by “invent”. CTSS had the concept of process but never used the term. It also had little support for inter-process communication and all the other tools we associate with it. ITS, which was the competing operating system from. Marvin Minski’s lab had a more sophisticated environment but even that was fairly crude. The modified ITS done by Berkeley apparently used the term process but I have not seen the manual. MCP, which was influenced by Multitcs used the term and had the full process control environment. As others have noted, Stretch, even the 1401 and the AF had the idea of processes to handle some aspects of IO but they really weren’t mature. You can even argue that the Sage system, which was really a collection of small programs stitched together with a minimal monitor had processes but that really misses the point. The modernness concept of processes matured in the early 1960s. MIT was a key center for this work but not the only center.
On Dec 29, 2018, at 9:57 PM, Paul McJones <paul@mcjones.org> wrote:
IBM’s Stretch project was considering multiprogramming in the late 1950s, but for example Ted Codd’s 1960 paper:
E. F. Codd. 1960. Multiprogram scheduling: parts 1 and 2. introduction and theory. Commun. ACM 3, 6 (June 1960), 347-350. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/367297.367317
focussed on the problem of resource optimiztion rather than on the programming abstraction.
Early timesharing work such as CTSS tended to present the idea of a virtualized physical computer, but didn’t necessarily provide a programming interface for creating, destroying, controlling, and communicating with processes. I believe these ideas were “simmering” in the minds of a number of people during the late 1950s and early 1960s.
On Dec 29, 2018, at 8:39 PM, Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Thank you for your answer, Paul. When we think about processes, of course the names of Dijkstra and Hoare come to the mind, but I believe they had precursors, before semaphores and communicating sequential processes. And 1965 seems a bit too late for the birth of the process.
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 Paul McJones a écrit ceci :
Laurent,
Edsger Dijkstra’s “Cooperating Sequential Processes" (EWD123) was written in 1965 (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd01xx/EWD123.PDF). His original paper on semaphores (EWD35) was written in Dutch several years before that (http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD00xx/EWD35.html).
By 1965, the term process was becoming fairly well-known in operating systems circles. For example, in a paper presented in 1965, Jack Dennis wrote:
Processes. We consider that the system hardware comprises one or more processors, which we can identify as being distinct from the main memory, the file storage devices and the input/output devices. Each processor is capable of executing algorithms that are specified by sequences of instructions. A process is a locus of control within an instruction sequence. That is, a process is that abstract entity which moves through the instructions of a procedure as the procedure is executed by a processor.
This is from: Jack B. Dennis and Earl C. Van Horn. 1966. Programming semantics for multiprogrammed computations. Commun. ACM 9, 3 (March 1966), 143-155. DOI=http://dx.doi.org/10.1145/365230.365252
Paul
On Dec 29, 2018, at 8:09 PM, Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le dimanche 30 décembre 2018 Grider, Gary Alan a écrit ceci :
Hasn’t there been great debate about when the first "stored program" was accomplished? Some said on Maniac by Metropolis but others disagree I think.
I would say that the concept of a process may appear when there are more than one program, potentially ready to execute, and in competition to access the processor.
If that is what you are looking for I am pretty sure it was well before CTSS or Multics. I think CTSS and Multics were in pursuit of time sharing (or multiple stored programs). I think the first implementation of process pipes might have been Demos but that was way after CTSS days.
Gary
On 12/29/18, 8:37 PM, "Members on behalf of Laurent Bloch" <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org on behalf of lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote:
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 McMillan, William W a écrit ceci :
"..., my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution ..."
Laurent, do you mean process in the sense of a computer program loaded (at least partially) into primary memory, described by a process control block, and managed by an operating system?
Yes, it is precisely the kind of entity I am asking about. I would say it appears with CTSS or Multics, but I am not sure. Once I read the name of the creator of the concept, but I did not write it down and I forgot, hence my question.
Or is the topic more broad than that?
Bill
________________________________________ From: Members [members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org] on behalf of Laurent Bloch [lb@laurentbloch.org] Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2018 6:03 PM To: James Cortada Cc: SIGCIS Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Invention of the concept of process
Le samedi 29 décembre 2018 James Cortada a écrit ceci :
> It might help to give us some context for your question. For example, if > interested in process in business, then it emerges in the late 19th century > and in the second half of the 20th becomes process management, TQM etc. If > in science, then it is language substituted for what otherwise we all think > of as the scientific method. Even earlier the notions of methods and > techniques are embodiments of the idea of process. Hence, my request for > context.
Well, my question was about computer processes, i.e. programs in execution in a computer, sometimes also called tasks.
>> On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:56 PM Laurent Bloch <lb@laurentbloch.org> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Surely many of you know the answer: who invented the concept of process, >> and when? >> >> Thank you for your answers. Have a nice Sunday! >> >> -- >> Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org >> Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! >> (A. Lincoln) >> _______________________________________________ >> This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion >> list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member >> posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list >> archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and >> you can change your subscription options at >> http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org > > > > -- > James W. Cortada > Senior Research Fellow > Charles Babbage Institute > University of Minnesota > jcortada@umn.edu > 608-274-6382
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net <https://laurentbloch.net/> - lb@laurentbloch.org<mailto:lb@laurentbloch.org> Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln) _______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
-- Laurent Bloch - https://laurentbloch.net - lb@laurentbloch.org Si vous trouvez que l'éducation coûte cher, essayez l'ignorance ! (A. Lincoln)
_______________________________________________ This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/ and you can change your subscription options at http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org
participants (6)
-
David Grier -
Grider, Gary Alan -
James Cortada -
Laurent Bloch -
McMillan, William W -
Paul McJones