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Hi folks
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<div>The piece Brian mentions having written is B. Randell and B. Coghlan, "ChatGPT's Astonishing Fabrications About Percy Ludgate" in
<i>IEEE Annals of the History of Computing</i>, vol. 45, no. 02, pp. 71-72, April-June 2023, doi: 10.1109/MAHC.2023.3272989. (it appears to be Open Access at the Xplore link https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?tp=&arnumber=10148832). </div>
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<div>Personally, my view is that no matter how good the answers these machine learning systems give us,
<i>they’re not worth the cost. </i>Quite apart from the well-documented energy/water/environmental impact (which must surely be our most important criterion when making any decision, these days), and the social impacts (including educational, where ML has hit
me personally the hardest), from a scholarly perspective we have a duty to be critical of our sources—and when they come from a LLM we simply can’t interrogate them properly. </div>
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<div>As the editor of <i>Annals</i>, I need to follow the IEEE’s publication guidelines on the use of machine learning systems in the production of manuscripts: it is mandatory that authors declare if they have ML-generated text, but not if they have used a
tool to check/correct their spelling or grammar. Clearly this is a bit of a strange distinction: if an author accepts a Grammarly-rewrite of a sentence, aren’t they including ML-generated text? </div>
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<div>What I have not found <i>so far </i>is whether there is any requirement to declare the use of ML-based tools in their research. Again, there may be grey areas—I’m pretty sure Preview on my Mac is automatically OCR’ing text in all my scanned PDFs—that’s
probably ML-based but I can’t do much about it—but it feels to me like there there is a distinction between that and asking a chatbot to do your research for you. </div>
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<div>As a community of scholars we will have to set our own standards here. While my personal view is always going to be anti-ML, I will do my best to listen openly and make sure the community is served as best as possible by
<i>Annals</i>. </div>
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Best,<br>
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Dr. Troy Kaighin Astarte (they/them / nhw) </div>
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I often dictate messages due to motor disability; please forgive any oddities resulting.<br>
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Lecturer, Computer Science / Darlithydd, Cyfrifiadureg <br>
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Editor-in-Chief / Prif Olygydd,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i>IEEE Annals of the History of Computing</i></div>
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<div style="text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;"><span style="font-size: 12px;">Yes, I have switched my default message font. Do you like it? </span></div>
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<div>On 6 May 2025, at 23:39, Ceruzzi, Paul via Members <members@lists.sigcis.org> wrote:</div>
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<b>RHYBUDD:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Daeth yr e-bost hwn o'r tu allan i Brifysgol Abertawe. Peidiwch â chlicio ar atodiadau neu agor atodiadau oni bai eich bod chi'n adnabod yr anfonwr a'ch bod yn gwybod bod y cynnwys yn ddiogel.</div>
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Thank you for bringing up this thread. Agree that there has been a great advance in the past year, of which I was unaware. Not as easy as it once was to get the programs to hallucinate.</div>
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I was chatting with a Google employee the other day. He works in the Reston, Virginia office and was familiar with my book on Tysons Corner ("Internet Alley"). I told him of my Substack posts on the concentration of Data Centers in neighboring Ashburn. He suggested
that I write a second edition of the book to cover this topic. I told him that as a retiree I no longer have the energy or stamina to write another book. He said (paraphrasing): "Let Google Gemini write it for you. It will do an excellent job. No problem,
as long as you supervise it, and acknowledge how the Second Edition was written." </div>
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As Jack Benny once said, "I'm thinking it over."</div>
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Paul Ceruzzi</div>
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<a href="http://substack.com/@paulceruzzi">Substack.com/@paulceruzzi</a></div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size: 11pt;"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Members <<a href="mailto:members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org">members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org</a>> on behalf of
Adam Hyland via Members <<a href="mailto:members@lists.sigcis.org">members@lists.sigcis.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, May 6, 2025 6:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Brian Randell <<a href="mailto:brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk">brian.randell@newcastle.ac.uk</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sigcis <<a href="mailto:members@sigcis.org">members@sigcis.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Perplexity</font>
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<b><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(156, 101, 0);">External Email - Exercise Caution</span></b></div>
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<div dir="auto">Thanks for your return to this topic. The perplexity thread you shared is private and unfortunately the pdf generated obscures the answer with a UI element. I’ve asked the same question to Perplexity using their “research” mode which more profligately
uses computing resources to give a more detailed answer. The result is here (</div>
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<div dir="auto"><a href="https://www.perplexity.ai/search/did-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw" originalsrc="https://www.perplexity.ai/search/did-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw">https://www.perplexity.ai/search/did-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-oxneW37nS9.bAiYvfV3QVw</a>)
and should be available to anyone with the URL.</div>
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<div dir="auto">I’m familiar with perplexity because the University of Washington pays for “pro” access which makes it both partially difficult and morally dubious to proscribe its use in the classroom.</div>
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<div dir="auto">One broad point is probably obvious to everyone but bears repeating: there is much more difference in capability between any of these agents today versus a year ago than there is among the agents themselves. They all show a dramatic increase
in capability to “understand” queries and generate cogent responses. If someone on this thread last posed one of their exam questions to ChatGPT last year they ought to try again today, and again in another month.</div>
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<div dir="auto">-Adam</div>
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<div dir="ltr">Adam Hyland (<i>he/him)</i>
<div><a href="https://adampunk.com/" originalsrc="https://adampunk.com/" target="_blank">adampunk.com</a></div>
<div>UW HCDE PhD Student</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 8:57 AM Brian Randell via Members <<a href="mailto:members@lists.sigcis.org" target="_blank">members@lists.sigcis.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Hi:</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><u></u> <u></u></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">A while ago I and colleagues published a short critique in the Annals of the History of Computing of ChatGPT, based on its performance on some questions about Percy Ludgate.</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">I’ve recently been trying (the free version of) Perplexity, the AI search (or more exactly question-answering) system.</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Perplexity itself claims:</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">Here's what makes Perplexity different</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">Answers that are accurate and always cited</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">We continuously search the internet and identify the best sources, from academic research</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">to Reddit threads, to provide the perfect answer to any question.</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">Citations in every response</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">Every answer uses cited sources to provide a more accurate and comprehensive answer.</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; text-indent: 36pt;">If you want to dig deeper, just click the link to the source.</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">See its brilliant answer to the question “<span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Segoe UI", sans-serif;">Did Percy Ludgate's work have any impact?”:</span></div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.perplexity.ai/search/did-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l7QbFBQe$" originalsrc="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.perplexity.ai/search/did-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l7QbFBQe$" target="_blank">https://www.perplexity.ai/search/did-percy-ludgate-s-work-have-2esemV.BRuCo0Q7O_4AxfA</a></div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">The web version limits the number of questions per day – so far the iPhone App hasn’t.</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><u></u> <u></u></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">I assume I’m not alone here in trying Perplexity, but I don’t recall any previous comment about it in SIGCIS.</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"><u></u> <u></u></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">However, the Wikipedia article about it<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perplexity_AI__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l_ByERqJ$" originalsrc="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perplexity_AI__;!!K-Hz7m0Vt54!gyxp0x4-UgdlqkBkNCRifXnXGAv6Y1rWzqMDvgDAx9lcE0e3xttiUQD_Zgg0jayzgaPV_LCgiwp1l_ByERqJ$" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perplexity_AI</a></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">is a little sobering, regarding its alleged copyright violations, and failure to respect the robots.txt web-crawling standards.</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Cheers</div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;"> </p>
<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;">Brian</div>
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