<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
<div class="">Hi all,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
It might be relevant in this context to watch the keynote video from Charles Isbell at NeurIPS 2020: <a href="https://nips.cc/virtual/2020/public/invited_16166.html" class="">https://nips.cc/virtual/2020/public/invited_16166.html</a>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I’ve posted the title and abstract below, but the talk also discusses machine learning systems as “algorithms with gaps” that are filled in by using example data. I really like this framing, because it shows us how machine learning fits into the
traditional programming paradigm, and it gives you a sense of (and an opportunity to discuss) the reliability of the different stages that a computer goes through to solve the problem at hand.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Best wishes,</div>
<div class="">Emiel van Miltenburg</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">——————</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<h2 class="card-title text-center main-title" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Spectral, serif; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 0.75rem; line-height: 1.2; text-align: center !important;">
<span style="font-size: 14px;" class="">Invited Talk: <br style="box-sizing: border-box;" class="">
You Can’t Escape Hyperparameters and Latent Variables: Machine Learning as a Software Engineering Enterprise </span></h2>
<h2 class="card-title mb-2 text-center" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-family: Spectral, serif; margin-top: 10px; font-weight: 500; line-height: 1.2; caret-color: rgb(74, 85, 104); margin-bottom: 0.5rem !important; text-align: center !important;">
<span style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;" class="">Charles Isbell</span></h2>
<div class="p-3 text-center" style="box-sizing: border-box; caret-color: rgb(74, 85, 104); font-family: Spectral, serif; padding: 1rem !important; text-align: center !important;">
<div style="box-sizing: border-box;" class=""><span class="format-date-span-full" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 14px;">Tue, Dec 8th, 2020 @ 02:00 – 04:00 CET</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="font-weight-bold" style="box-sizing: border-box; caret-color: rgb(74, 85, 104); font-family: "Fira Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 16px; font-weight: 700 !important;">Abstract:</span><span style="caret-color: rgb(74, 85, 104); font-family: "Fira Sans", sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class=""> Successful
technological fields have a moment when they become pervasive, important, and noticed. They are deployed into the world and, inevitably, something goes wrong. A badly designed interface leads to an aircraft disaster. A buggy controller delivers a lethal dose
of radiation to a cancer patient. The field must then choose to mature and take responsibility for avoiding the harms associated with what it is producing. Machine learning has reached this moment. In this talk, I will argue that the community needs to adopt
systematic approaches for creating robust artifacts that contribute to larger systems that impact the real human world. I will share perspectives from multiple researchers in machine learning, theory, computer perception, and education; discuss with them approaches
that might help us to develop more robust machine-learning systems; and explore scientifically interesting problems that result from moving beyond narrow machine-learning algorithms to complete machine-learning systems.</span><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 28 Oct 2021, at 07:28, Allan Olley <<a href="mailto:allan.olley@alumni.utoronto.ca" class="">allan.olley@alumni.utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Hello,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My sense is talk of when an algorithm becomes many algorithms or the like is an example of a sorites paradox (how many items make a heap, if you take one item off a heap it is still a heap yet if you take 10 items off it is not etc.). How many
steps can you add to an algorithm before it becomes a heap of algorithms, a blob (or a piece of software and how many lines of code before a piece of software becomes a suite of software and so on)?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My suspicion is talk of "the algorithm" may have started with Google's PageRank algorithm. My sense is that the original PageRank algorithm was a proper Knuthian algorithm of definite and limited size, but of course as they applied it to search
and had to deal with various exigencies including people trying to game the algorithm there were endless additions and tinkering. So probably the scheme by which Google arranges search results is more like a heap of algorithms or the Blob than the original
PageRank algorithm, but it is often called an algorithm or "the algoirthm".</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am guessing the popular notion of algorithm grew from Google's PageRank to other not wholly dissimilar systems such as the method by which Facebook (and other social media sites) decides what we see on our feed or Youtube decides what videos
to suggest we might want to watch and so on,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct 28, 2021 at 12:49 AM Kimon Keramidas <<a href="mailto:kimon.keramidas@nyu.edu" class="">kimon.keramidas@nyu.edu</a>> wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;" class="">Dear Paul,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I actually don’t think that’s an inappropriate use of the term and that term has certainly evolved in popular use to this extent. I would also say that it has grown in its uses in technical application. It may seem like a blob from one perspective
but for Facebook, the system that decides a post’s position based on predictions is very much a “well-defined, finite set of steps that produces an unambiguous result.” They get exactly what they want by feeding data into that algorithm and getting a result
that they can then apply to their business practices. I think that in this day and age a conception of how algorithms are conceived, executed and worked has to be more expansive as technologies are increasingly integrated into complex formulaic processes such
as these. For example, I am certain that there is some level of AI built into Facebook's algorithm and therefore a level of complexity that seems “blob-like” but nonetheless is conceived and executed with the goal of unambiguous (at least from their perspective)
algorithmic results by Facebook’s engineers.<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div dir="auto" style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class="">
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span style="" class=""><font class=""><br class="">
</font></span></div>
<div style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class=""><span class=""><font class=""><font class=""><span class="">Safiya Noble’s book blows this out even further as she argues for
</span></font><i style="font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Algorithms of Oppression.
</i><span style="font-variant-caps: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-style: normal;" class="">Noble highlights that</span><font class=""> embedded social biases actually
integrate themselves into the construction of computer-based algorithms. They embed themselves in such a way that we could say that these biases become acceptable cultural practices that integrate themselves into those “well-defined, finite steps of steps”
if we start analyzing choices made in the construction of algorithms from a sociological as well as technical outlook. </font></font></span></div>
<div style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class=""><span class=""><font class=""><font class=""><br class="">
</font></font></span></div>
<div style="text-align:start;text-indent:0px" class=""><span class=""><font class=""><font class="">And as far as whether people should consider some algorithms as something threatening. That probably wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing at this point. I know
that despite a long held skepticism towards all things Facebook even I have been shocked about some of the blatant abuses that are being revealed over the last few weeks.</font></font></span></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span style="" class=""><font class=""><br class="">
</font></span></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span style="" class=""><font class="">Looking forward to further conversation.</font></span></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span style="" class=""><font class=""><br class="">
Cheers,</font></span></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span style="" class=""><font class="">Kimon</font></span></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span style="" class=""><font class=""><b class="">Kimon Keramidas, Ph.D.</b></font></span><br class="">
<font color="#431579" class="">Clinical Associate Professor,</font><font color="#431579" style="" class=""> </font><a href="http://as.nyu.edu/xe.html" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">XE: Experimental Humanities & Social Engagement</font></a><br class="">
<font color="#431579" class="">Affiliated Faculty, Program in International Relations</font></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<font color="#431579" class=""><br class="">
</font></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<font color="#431579" class=""><b class="">Pronouns:</b><span class=""> </span><font style="" class="">He/Him</font><br class="">
</font><br class="">
<span class=""><font color="#431579" class=""><b class="">New York University</b></font><br class="">
</span><font color="#818790" style="" class="">14 University Place<br class="">
New York, NY 10003</font><br class="">
<br class="">
<font color="#431579" class=""><span style="font-style:normal" class=""><b class="">Co-Director</b></span><span class=""> </span></font>-<span style="" class=""> </span><a href="http://dh.itmo.ru/en_about" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">ITMO
University International Digital Humanities Research Center</font></a></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<font color="#431579" class=""><b class="">Co-Founder</b></font> - <a href="http://jitpedagogy.org/" style="" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">The Journal of Interactive Technology and Pedagogy</font></a></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<b class=""><font color="#431579" class="">Co-Founder </font></b>- <a href="http://nycdh.org/" style="" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">NYCDH</font></a></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<span class=""><font class=""><b class=""><font color="#431579" class="">E </font></b></font></span><a href="mailto:kimon.keramidas@nyu.edu" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818791" class="">kimon.keramidas@nyu.edu</font></a></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<b style="" class=""><font color="#431579" class="">W</font></b> <a href="http://kimonkeramidas.com/" style="" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">http://kimonkeramidas.com</font></a><br class="">
<br class="">
<b style="font-size: 12px;" class=""><i class=""><font color="#431579" class="">The Sogdians: Influencers on the Silk Roads</font></i></b></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<a href="https://www.freersackler.si.edu/sogdians" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">Exhibition</font></a></div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;" class="">
<b style="font-size:12px" class=""><i class=""><font color="#431579" class="">The Interface Experience: Forty Years of Personal Computing</font><br class="">
</i></b><a href="https://www.bgc.bard.edu/gallery/exhibitions/10/the-interface-experience" style="font-weight: normal;" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">Exhibition</font></a><br class="">
<br class="">
<font style="font-size: 12px;" class=""><b class=""><i class=""><font color="#431579" class="">The Interface Experience: A User’s Guide</font><br class="">
</i></b><b class="">Winner</b><span class=""> </span>of the<b style="font-weight:normal" class=""> </b><b class="">2016 Innovation in Print Design Award</b> from the <b class="">American Alliance of Museums</b></font><br class="">
<a href="http://store.bgc.bard.edu/the-interface-experience-a-users-guide-by-kimon-keramidas/" style="" target="_blank" class=""><font color="#818790" class="">Buy Book</font></a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Oct 27, 2021, at 7:52 PM, Ceruzzi, Paul <<a href="mailto:CeruzziP@si.edu" target="_blank" class="">CeruzziP@si.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
This headline came from today's<span class=""> </span><i class="">Washington Post</i>, in a long above-the-fold article about Facebook's policies in determining what users see when they "like" a post. The article does not define the word, but describes an algorithm
as "...a system that decides on a post's position on the news feed based on predictions about each user's preferences and tendencies." That sounds to me like a complex piece of software, with perhaps hundreds of lines of code, that takes in a lot of variables
and produces a potentially wide range of outputs. It conjures up an image of something sinister and menacing. Not what Knuth defined as an "algorithm" in Volume One of his<span class=""> </span><i class="">Art of Computer Programming</i>. His definition has
been refined over the years, but it retains the notion of a well-defined, finite set of steps that produces an unambiguous result.</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
Should we be bothered that the<span class=""> </span><i class="">Post</i> (and I assume other newspapers) are not using the term properly? Are people now going to think of an "algorithm" as something threatening, like<span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);display:inline" class=""> "The
Blob" in that famous Steve McQueen movie</span>? </div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
Paul Ceruzzi</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt" class="">
Tom Haigh & Paul Ceruzzi,<span class=""> </span><i class="">A New History of Modern Computing</i> (MIT Press 2021) </div>
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class="">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">This
email is relayed from members at<span class=""> </span></span><a href="http://sigcis.org/" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">sigcis.org</a><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class="">,
the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at<span class=""> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.sigcis.org_pipermail_members-2Dsigcis.org_&d=DwICAg&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=8lhfdn1CVAMK_u4AbH6K2X3Rh95e5EvJanbOcfGalCo&m=ea2IyyzGMBYqnJeWKHghD5FkVqtgxsNckj3MEVinsCQ&s=3RMyQdkyVkCEDElaIzRGbRU2gLRvNdv47KpPH6ucCnY&e=" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.sigcis.org_pipermail_members-2Dsigcis.org_&d=DwICAg&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=8lhfdn1CVAMK_u4AbH6K2X3Rh95e5EvJanbOcfGalCo&m=ea2IyyzGMBYqnJeWKHghD5FkVqtgxsNckj3MEVinsCQ&s=3RMyQdkyVkCEDElaIzRGbRU2gLRvNdv47KpPH6ucCnY&e=</a><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""><span class=""> </span> and
you can change your subscription options at<span class=""> </span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.sigcis.org_listinfo.cgi_members-2Dsigcis.org&d=DwICAg&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=8lhfdn1CVAMK_u4AbH6K2X3Rh95e5EvJanbOcfGalCo&m=ea2IyyzGMBYqnJeWKHghD5FkVqtgxsNckj3MEVinsCQ&s=5ORNb_FCuQhU8VwTR2W2fTju2szcYKM7i-cfA7rrbnQ&e=" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank" class="">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lists.sigcis.org_listinfo.cgi_members-2Dsigcis.org&d=DwICAg&c=slrrB7dE8n7gBJbeO0g-IQ&r=8lhfdn1CVAMK_u4AbH6K2X3Rh95e5EvJanbOcfGalCo&m=ea2IyyzGMBYqnJeWKHghD5FkVqtgxsNckj3MEVinsCQ&s=5ORNb_FCuQhU8VwTR2W2fTju2szcYKM7i-cfA7rrbnQ&e=</a><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none;float:none;display:inline" class=""></span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<img src="https://6ca89459-c562-4b62-b3cc-1f63bf576463.mailbutler.org/p2/a8d44607-c1d3-46e4-b8f0-b3b3d8db1219/t.gif" align="left" width="0" height="0" style="width: 0px; height: 0px; border: 0px;" title="" alt="" id="gmail-m_3317666220629998658MailbutlerTrackingPixel" class=""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">
sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at
<a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">
http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at
<a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">
http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a></blockquote>
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">--</div>
<div class="">Yours Truly,</div>
<div class="">Allan Olley, PhD</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a href="http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound" target="_blank" class="">http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org" class="">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives
are at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" class="">
http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at
<a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" class="">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>