<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Dammit, now I’m going to have to change a bunch of powerpoints! But thanks for the correction!<div><br></div><div>S<br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Oct 14, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Herb Jellinek <jellinek@newscenter.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
Martin Cooper has since revised his story about Star Trek and the
inspiration behind the cellular telephone.<br>
<br>
From the <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://goodtimes.sc/cover-stories/cell-phone-inventor-martin-cooper/">Santa
Cruz <i>Good Times</i>, August 17, 2021</a>, in a piece promoting
his book <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Cutting-the-Cord/Martin-Cooper/9781948122740"><i>Cutting
the Cord</i></a>:<br>
<blockquote>
<p>In actual fact, it wasn’t <em>Star Trek</em>’s communicator
that inspired the cell phone, but the two-way radio wristwatch
that Dick Tracy wore in the 1930s comic strip the 92-year-old
Cooper read as a kid. So who’s responsible for this
long-standing lie? Uh, well … Martin Cooper.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>“I did it,” Cooper told me in an interview earlier this year.
“It’s one of the mistakes I made.”</p>
<p>It’s true. People had assumed that the show<em> predicted</em>
the cell phone for decades, but it was actually a 2005 TV movie
called <em>How</em> <em>William Shatner Changed the World</em>
that first claimed that Cooper literally conceived of the cell
phone after happening to catch an episode of <em>Star Trek</em>
on TV one day. Cooper endorsed the story—you can still see the
clip on YouTube—and he’s been paying for it ever since.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Herb Jellinek<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/13/21 8:55 PM, Ceruzzi, Paul
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MN2PR12MB4606A37EA106FB12307A4BE2A2B89@MN2PR12MB4606.namprd12.prod.outlook.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Cuneo, in the chapter cited above in the Ferro & Swedin
edited volume, quotes Martin Cooper, one of the designers of the
original Motorola cell phone: " "...And suddenly , there's
Captain Kirk talking on his communicator. Talking, with no
dialing. That was not a fantasy to us... that was an
objective." He also quotes Rob Haitani, at Palm and later
Handspring: "When I designed the UI for the Palm OS back in '93,
my first sketches were influenced by the UI of the
<i>Enterprise</i> bridge panels...Years later, when we designed
the first [Handspring] Treo, it had a form factor similar to the
communicators in the original series." The Treo's design looks
even closer to the communicator than the Motorola flip-phones. </div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
The crew of the ill-fated <i>Discovery One</i>, from <i>2001,
a Space Odyssey</i>, used a tablet computer. But also voice
recognition & synthesis with HAL; no need for a keyboard.
This was in 1968.</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
Paul Ceruzzi</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Members <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org"><members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org></a> on behalf
of Stephen Cass <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:stephen.cass@gmail.com"><stephen.cass@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 13, 2021 10:11 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Brian E Carpenter
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com"><brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:members@lists.sigcis.org">members@lists.sigcis.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:members@lists.sigcis.org"><members@lists.sigcis.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Query: mobile phones
and science fiction</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="line-height:12.0pt;
background:#FFEB9C"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#9C6500">External Email - Exercise Caution</span></b></p>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">>I call foul. The original communicator
was in "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." (premiered on September
22, 1964). Star Trek came later (September 8, 1966).<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hah! For sure, but the inventor of the phone watched
Star Trek, not the The Man from Uncle :) This is why we
had to toss so many well-worn examples from our book
drafts, because we couldn't establish specific links.
Teasing out the specific linkages between sci-fi and
tech is really tough, because inspiration is so personal
to those involved, and barring a direct quote from them,
it's hard to be sure about the casual relationships:
first in fiction may not mean much. Or even non-fiction:
in a related example of the relationship between science
and art it's reasonable to suggest Van Gogh's Starry
Night was influenced by the drawings of M50 by the Earl
of Rosse, because the drawings were widely reproduced
and there's some evidence Van Gogh saw them, but we
can't say for sure....</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>S.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 13, 2021
at 9:34 PM Brian E Carpenter <<a href="mailto:brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);
padding-left:1ex">
> The mobile phone is actually a classic example,
being inspired by Star Trek's communicators<br>
<br>
I call foul. The original communicator was in "The Man
from U.N.C.L.E." (premiered on September 22, 1964). Star
Trek came later (September 8, 1966).<br>
<br>
I was a fan of "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." before I was a
Trekkie.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FThe_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.%23Communications_devices&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042882273%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=NMy6ZGcqbfwZ1u744SwJy3CRnnz2bBs8RYkuJLSUwMc%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#Communications_devices" shash="t59XWacSVd2Ek90ckW7Btgd4PEZec0e/NzBZR7SZBZdnNrn21mgjQ/+F0+e0N9+0GfPFKXFybWE0C2O7RG8yUTnF9HUW0JEUFQ1r59wYwQO0ndlyUmWx83x6+twsnhJKrR55jB0ZD8eec6OYn3fIudSkuenU0PzOHf7ssG5khm4=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_U.N.C.L.E.#Communications_devices</a><br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Brian Carpenter<br>
<br>
On 14-Oct-21 12:45, Stephen Cass wrote:<br>
> I'm not an historian, but in my co-author and I
have written about the feedback loops between science
fiction and technology in parts of our "Hollyweird
Science" books, published by Springer ( <a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.springer.com%2Fgp%2Fbook%2F9783319150710&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042892270%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=krJDWMXiX7vd4WhnrJ79dt5LeqVZaVbOzSwDv6J1N40%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319150710" shash="Ggo0/BiaHm3l4X7aXVi5F+Zm5qDECrKUkJiG4sVVXfQ7Z/m8H/1IBDrBDh6VXcA5gl0UCQnIzr06HyIaSCnPuWgpfooduNeOiZVSHopBW1bAmGZubq8A4Q/kh6WYEK5HiCnUf97irPzFOCoANEU5Zn527jAFfk96R9bb3RyRuRs=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319150710</a>
<<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.springer.com%2Fgp%2Fbook%2F9783319150710&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042892270%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=krJDWMXiX7vd4WhnrJ79dt5LeqVZaVbOzSwDv6J1N40%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319150710" shash="Ggo0/BiaHm3l4X7aXVi5F+Zm5qDECrKUkJiG4sVVXfQ7Z/m8H/1IBDrBDh6VXcA5gl0UCQnIzr06HyIaSCnPuWgpfooduNeOiZVSHopBW1bAmGZubq8A4Q/kh6WYEK5HiCnUf97irPzFOCoANEU5Zn527jAFfk96R9bb3RyRuRs=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.springer.com/gp/book/9783319150710</a>> )
. The mobile phone is actually a classic example, being
inspired by Star Trek's communicators, c.f. this Forbes
article, which also mentions some other innovations.<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fmichaelvenables%2F2013%2F04%2F03%2Fcaptain-kirks-call-to-spock%2F%3Fsh%3D368b37f6a92c&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042902264%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=AY569V4IrWonwX0uBvDqj1dbLDJqyklUiGoyQ5epVpw%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelvenables/2013/04/03/captain-kirks-call-to-spock/?sh=368b37f6a92c" shash="iH8xEifrQ0wR8xb67YUwpgJ2ZMW3HIHHfUTSUdkp6K05KXuA/CFFWDhNr3a7dyOLf+geUOsoWQJcwRooDcVogvu/+FgLsaFDKPtUc1XzMoa68T2tFyZcd7DBaoTG3F5m4P6SXtYI+CpQltqC7JbBbYmn+CecvbAX80YenghWs1k=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelvenables/2013/04/03/captain-kirks-call-to-spock/?sh=368b37f6a92c</a>
<<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Fmichaelvenables%2F2013%2F04%2F03%2Fcaptain-kirks-call-to-spock%2F%3Fsh%3D368b37f6a92c&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042902264%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=AY569V4IrWonwX0uBvDqj1dbLDJqyklUiGoyQ5epVpw%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelvenables/2013/04/03/captain-kirks-call-to-spock/?sh=368b37f6a92c" shash="iH8xEifrQ0wR8xb67YUwpgJ2ZMW3HIHHfUTSUdkp6K05KXuA/CFFWDhNr3a7dyOLf+geUOsoWQJcwRooDcVogvu/+FgLsaFDKPtUc1XzMoa68T2tFyZcd7DBaoTG3F5m4P6SXtYI+CpQltqC7JbBbYmn+CecvbAX80YenghWs1k=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelvenables/2013/04/03/captain-kirks-call-to-spock/?sh=368b37f6a92c</a>><br>
> <br>
> In an interview with Jason Pontin, then EIC of MIT
Technology Review for the 2013 Twelve Tomorrows hard
sci-fi anthology (which I edited, so another shameless
self-plug, sorry :) ), Neal Stephenson put it very well:
"...science fiction can provide a coherent picture of an
alternate realty in which some innovation happened. Not
just the technical innovation itself, but the social
context and the economic context that causes the
innovation to make sense. It can be sort of like an
invisible magnetic field that gets the iron filings to
line up. In big engineering organizations, you've got
all these people working on small pieces of a bigger
problem, and there's an enormous amount of communication
that has to take place to keep them all working in a
coordinated fashion. That communication <br>
is tedious and expensive, but if everybody's got the
same picture in their heads, maybe you don't have to
communicate as much."<br>
> <br>
> Currently, the best academics to talk to are likely
at ASU's Center for <br>
Science and the Imagination:<br>
> <br>
> <a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsi.asu.edu%2Fabout-us%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042912260%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=K5LjbvUhV2PkDCb6qFLIoCqlybPGVOIDi4vULPdN5dY%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://csi.asu.edu/about-us/" shash="KnieiV7YjbXlpM5c5KNWVb+rIWgbF2DoJthhUajgi8IgpRUYv88ilwVEIwQZI5bnHhnkEnkceJAclsFAPKQNYH6n2Ppnds2cEeUjUmQWm/bUwRGr64c25jKB3o+IA+dXj8gfi1YqIIuWWnr+czQBOU0DI54k9Yp8FZosv8FqUJs=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">
https://csi.asu.edu/about-us/</a> <<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcsi.asu.edu%2Fabout-us%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042912260%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=K5LjbvUhV2PkDCb6qFLIoCqlybPGVOIDi4vULPdN5dY%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://csi.asu.edu/about-us/" shash="KnieiV7YjbXlpM5c5KNWVb+rIWgbF2DoJthhUajgi8IgpRUYv88ilwVEIwQZI5bnHhnkEnkceJAclsFAPKQNYH6n2Ppnds2cEeUjUmQWm/bUwRGr64c25jKB3o+IA+dXj8gfi1YqIIuWWnr+czQBOU0DI54k9Yp8FZosv8FqUJs=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://csi.asu.edu/about-us/</a>><br>
> <br>
> They've done some innovation projects, including
the "Hieroglyph: Stories & Visions for a Better
Future" anthology and ASU's Threatcasting Lab uses
science fiction as a tool for e.g, military and
intelligence folks: <a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthreatcasting.asu.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042922254%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KWzEx5pZ0S3Zjam5EJhEVZEQxPeHx%2FUEHgZe2%2B4vEGE%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://threatcasting.asu.edu/" shash="xnY5OVJMOfDX7HCigsfzMPsR25rax9rS9zP/jnXpP0IM0Qz13caiq43rg8zRtASePMoTGD50br8eRazRFy3N7y3ZOgomhc9/oCcxa+k3Artn4t1OUyZYLhukYHlveN94Y0WyuWSwtf7LgGJpla+bWAz0ckqnFIQuBLFJsBv3ORI=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://threatcasting.asu.edu/</a>
<<a href="https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fthreatcasting.asu.edu%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cceruzzip%40si.edu%7C1dd0f62fc17c46b0cd7608d98eb7f468%7C989b5e2a14e44efe93b78cdd5fc5d11c%7C0%7C0%7C637697744042922254%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=KWzEx5pZ0S3Zjam5EJhEVZEQxPeHx%2FUEHgZe2%2B4vEGE%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="https://threatcasting.asu.edu/" shash="xnY5OVJMOfDX7HCigsfzMPsR25rax9rS9zP/jnXpP0IM0Qz13caiq43rg8zRtASePMoTGD50br8eRazRFy3N7y3ZOgomhc9/oCcxa+k3Artn4t1OUyZYLhukYHlveN94Y0WyuWSwtf7LgGJpla+bWAz0ckqnFIQuBLFJsBv3ORI=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://threatcasting.asu.edu/</a>><br>
> <br>
> Hope this is of some help!<br>
> <br>
> S.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:29 PM Andrew Russell <<a href="mailto:arussell@arussell.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arussell@arussell.org</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:arussell@arussell.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">arussell@arussell.org</a>>>
wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi again SIGCIS - please see below, forwarded
with permission via Peggy Kidwell - <br>
> <br>
>><br>
>> *From:* Baker, Alexi <<a href="mailto:alexi.baker@yale.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alexi.baker@yale.edu</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:alexi.baker@yale.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alexi.baker@yale.edu</a>>><br>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 13, 2021 2:14 PM<br>
>> *To:* <a href="mailto:rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk</a>> <<a href="mailto:rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rete@maillist.ox.ac.uk</a>>><br>
>> *Subject:* [rete] History of
telecommunications / mobile phones<br>
>> <br>
>> This is perhaps going a bit far afield in
the history of technology, but I have a student who is
interested in the history of mobile phones
<br>
with respect to science fiction. She is in particular
interested in how the development of such
telecommunications influenced, was represented in,
<br>
and was influenced by science fiction films. Do any of
you happen to know <br>
of historians who have focused on the development of
mobile phones and/or <br>
on the relationship between sci fi and technology in
general?<br>
>><br>
>> Many thanks for any suggestions - Alexi <br>
>><br>
>> Dr. Alexi Baker<br>
>> Division of the History of Science &
Technology<br>
>> Yale Peabody Museum of Natural History<br>
>> Tel. 203-737-3084<br>
>> <a href="mailto:alexi.baker@yale.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alexi.baker@yale.edu</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:alexi.baker@yale.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">alexi.baker@yale.edu</a>><br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
This email is relayed from members at sigcis.org, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/">http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a></pre>
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