<div dir="ltr">I am not sure how much insight I can add to this discussion, but here goes with a broader contextual report on the men's clubs. <div><br></div><div>I worked at IBM from 1974 through 2012, all in jobs that required my dealing with customers, senior public officials, and with institutions of long standing, many over a century in existence. Such clubs were largely dining and conference room facilities, often established long before there were such facilities in business offices and hotels. So until the end of the 1970s and by custom into the 1980s in the US there existed clubs dedicated to specific professions or white collar professions more generally and were neutral ground where private conversations could be had, say, between business leaders and state governors and legislators. I know, as I hosted some over the years in New York (Yale Club), Atlanta, Nashville, and Madison, WI, among others. Most clubs--yes you had to join so only people in those professions, etc.were admitted--were thus aimed at the social, business, and political elite. These were very useful facilities. Portraits of famous members hung on the walls, largely a 19th century practice that ended in the cases I recall by the end of the 1920s. You could always get a magnificent steak (guy food), creamed spinach (fabulous everywhere), mashed potatoes and if you want, Bourbon over ice at lunch time. But the point I want to make is that when these clubs were formed, its members were in professions not occupied by women, e.g., no female governors or CEOs. These places were strictly for conducting business in a casual way, i.e., over a meal or a drink, so having women participate would have disturbed the model. In large cities, women had tea rooms in large department stores by the end of the 1880s where they--often the wives of the men's clubs' members--could meet. Not until the 1960s when women had started a pretty extensive penetration into the professions served by these men's clubs did the issue of their membership begin to be discussed and acted upon. IT industry techi managers were part of the scene. </div><div><br></div><div>This is not meant to be a defense of these clubs, rather an explanation for their behavior, which its members probably as a group did not view as a problem until women pushed back since such descrimination prevented them from using similar facilities with which to cultivate customers, clients, etc. More obviously a problem, however, was that these clubs were notoriously hostile toward having African American members. If my recollections are still intact, in almost every one of the facilities, all the servers were African American males, often over the age of 40. A few white female servers also worked in these clubs.</div><div><br><div>I might add, a parallel circumstance existed with golf country clubs, but since these were largely the product of post WWI America, the gender barrier had not taken as strong a hold across the nation. Some clubs stipulated what days women could use the restaurant without their husbands, and there were days when the course was available only to the "Ladies," usually Wednesdays or Thursdays. They could, however, play tennis or use the swimming pools whenever they wanted. But, right to the end of the 20th century there were some clubs that blocked women--recall the Masters Tournament (Augusta National Golf Club) in the 2010s that tried to block IBM's CEO, Ginni Rometty, from being a member (although for 80 years all of IBM's CEOs were) and yet IBM was a corporate sponsor. Eventually they let her join the club and she walked in wearing a pink sports jacket! I think that day thousands of American IBM women let out a cheer.</div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Sep 11, 2021 at 3:17 PM Sharon Traweek <<a href="mailto:traweek@history.ucla.edu">traweek@history.ucla.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">r</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">e</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black">
early female architect barred from men's club</span><span style="font-size:10pt"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">H</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">ere
is some </span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">background information</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">:
</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span><u></u></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">From th</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">e
mid-70s to the late 80s </span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">th</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">ere
were many demonstrations, often led by lawyers, journalists, and those in other professions who w</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">ere excluded from work-related discussions
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></span>h</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">eld
at men-only and sometimes white-only social clubs</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Th</span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">e
sites included some university alumni clubs.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> Usually th</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">ere
was extensive newspaper/TV coverage. Histories of those events and lawsuits might identify participants.</span><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<br>
</span><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/1977/01/03/archives/quitting-is-not-acquitting.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Quitting
Is Not Acquitting - The New York Times</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">, 3 Jan 1977
</span><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span></a></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">The
troublesome thing about private clubs, in law and in fact, is that they are ... Why men only, after all, in Washington's Metropolitan and Cosmos Clubs?</span><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
</span><br>
<u></u></span></p>
<h3 style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;margin:0in">
<u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:blue;font-weight:normal"><a href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1987/11/07/cosmos-club-attacked-by-dc-ruling/6531aa35-726d-4e34-8a76-86b69e4a1aeb/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">COSMOS
CLUB ATTACKED BY DC RULING - The ...</span><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span></a></span></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-weight:normal"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Washington Post, 7
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Nov
1987. </span><span><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span><u></u></span></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">The sweeping decision is the latest development
in a long-running conflict over men-only clubs in the District, and arises out of a two-pronged .</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><br>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:blue"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/1988/09/14/garden/club-doors-are-open-but-women-draw-back.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Club
Doors Are Open, But Women Draw Back - The New York ...</span><span style="color:windowtext;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">, 14
</span><span style="color:windowtext"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Sep1988</span><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span></a></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Of the University Club's 4,000 members, only 20 are women; .. Many clubs have fought such laws and lost; a few are still fighting</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
</span><br>
<u></u></span></p>
<h3 style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;margin:0in">
<u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:blue;font-weight:normal"><a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/1341620" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">State
Power and Discrimination by Private Clubs - JSTOR</span><span style="color:windowtext"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><u></u></span></a></span></u></h3>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><cite><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Harvard Law Review</span></cite></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">,
Vol. 104, No. 8 (Jun., 1991), pp. 1835-1856 (22 pages)</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">.
</span><u></u></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Private social clubs with discriminatory membership policies are fast becoming extinct. Such clubs face mounting informal pressure'.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><u></u><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
</span><br>
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="gmail-m_-6667951368997162860Signature">
<div>
<div></div>
<div></div>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span>
<div></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">S</span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><font size="4"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Sharon Traweek</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">,
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">UCLA Gender Studies and History Departments</span><br>
</font></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><font size="4"></font><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px">
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Geneva,sans-serif;margin:0px"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">UCLA Terasaki Center for Japanese Studies</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Geneva,sans-serif;margin:0px"><a href="https://www.international.ucla.edu/japan/article/227444" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">https://www.international.ucla.edu/japan/article/227444</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
<p style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Geneva,sans-serif;margin:0px"><a href="https://www.4sonline.org/what-is-4s/4s-prizes/john-desmond-bernal-prize/" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">https://www.4sonline.org/what-is-4s/4s-prizes/john-desmond-bernal-prize/</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:black"><a href="https://www.routledge.com/Questing-Excellence-in-Academia-A-Tale-of-Two-Universities/Sorensen-Traweek/p/book/9780367259334" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">https://www.routledge.com/Questing-Excellence-in-Academia-A-Tale-of-Two-Universities/Sorensen-Traweek/p/book/9780367259334</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<br>
</span></p>
<p style="margin:0in;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></p>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">As a
</span><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university" rel="noopener noreferrer" title="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land-grant_university" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">land
grant university</span></a></span><span style="color:black;font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> UCLA acknowledges the Gabrielino/Tongva peoples as the traditional land caretakers of Tovaangar (Los Angeles basin and Southern Channel Islands).</span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Tahoma;font-size:13px"></div>
</div>
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="gmail-m_-6667951368997162860appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div id="gmail-m_-6667951368997162860divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>From:</b></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Members <<a href="mailto:members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org" target="_blank">members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org</a>> on behalf of Len Shustek <<a href="mailto:len@shustek.com" target="_blank">len@shustek.com</a>></span><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>Sent:</b></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Saturday, September 11, 2021 12:08 PM</span><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>To:</b></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Jonathan Coopersmith <<a href="mailto:j-coopersmith@tamu.edu" target="_blank">j-coopersmith@tamu.edu</a>>; Ellen Spertus <<a href="mailto:spertus@mills.edu" target="_blank">spertus@mills.edu</a>></span><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>Cc:</b></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
SIGCIS Listserver <<a href="mailto:members@sigcis.org" target="_blank">members@sigcis.org</a>></span><br>
</font></div>
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><b>Subject:</b></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Question about early female architect barred from men's club</span></font><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">At 07:41 PM 9/10/2021, Jonathan Coopersmith wrote:</span><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">There are other stories about other women unable to meet with professors and other professionals because their clubs banned women -- e.g. Anna G. Perkins,
</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"><i>Yale Needs Women</i></span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">.</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">I'm working on a condensation for CACM of Turing Award winner Dana Scott's recent oral history. In it he says this:</span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Close friends of [Alfred] Tarski were Raphael and Julia Robinson. Julia did her thesis under Tarski, but you can't imagine the difference for women between 1950 and today. Only
men were allowed in the Berkeley Faculty Club, so when Tarski suggested at a lunch that there were many problems to be solved about rational arithmetic, Julia was not present. Raphael suggested that to her later, and that's how Julia's famous thesis eventually
evolved, where she showed the undecidability of the theory of rational numbers.</span></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">If all goes well, the condensation and a pointer to the full interview should be published in about six months.</span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">Len</span><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>James W. Cortada</div><div>Senior Research Fellow</div>
<div>Charles Babbage Institute</div><div>University of Minnesota</div>
<div><a href="mailto:jcortada@umn.edu" target="_blank">jcortada@umn.edu</a></div>
<div>608-274-6382</div></div></div>