<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Exactly!<div class="">The whole decryption sequence from 372 to 375 is correct and uses full ITA2 naming but the p.351 table uses BP…</div><div class="">What also confused me is that Bauer writes (p.371):</div><div class=""><i class="">"In this appendix, the symbol ‘1’, ‘2’ and ‘3’ are used for the control characters ‘letter shift’, ’space’ and ‘figure shift’. This is in accordance with the ITA."</i></div><div class="">Very well, but he doesn’t say anything about ‘4' and ‘5’ so I assumed they were like BP figures and not ITA2 (which I did not fully know about).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Another worse issue was with Wikipedia which used The ITA2 ‘5’ character (like Bauer) but mixed with the / and 8 characters from BP!!</div><div class="">It listed the second message starting with JSH<b class="">5</b>N ZYMFS <b class="">/883</b>I where Bauer correctly lists it as JSH<b class="">5</b>N ZYMFS <b class="">0115</b>I</div><div class="">And since it seems everybody copied on wikipedia…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve since corrected the Wikipedia page by consistently using BP naming in the example.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><div class="">Emmanuel</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 24 mai 2021 à 19:02, Mark Priestley <<a href="mailto:m.priestley@gmail.com" class="">m.priestley@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Oh, nice! So Bauer on p 372 is in fact correctly and consistently using ITA2 naming while the table on p 351 (to which the text refers us) is using BP naming? <br class=""></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 17:15, E. Lazard <<a href="mailto:Emmanuel.Lazard@dauphine.psl.eu" target="_blank" class="">Emmanuel.Lazard@dauphine.psl.eu</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div class="">Ok, I’ve figured it out…<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Remember that the Baudot code encodes 26 letters and 6 control characters. Now when giving a list of characters (message, key, ciphertext…), one must find a way to express these characters by a symbol, so Bletchley Park had their well-known convention. It is NOT the one used in all examples of the Tiltman break… So the 5 in the first ciphertext is in fact NOT the 5 used at Bletchley Park (which had the meaning of shifting into figures mode). So what could it means? It’s one of the ITA2 naming…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><font face="Courier" class=""> bits name ITA2 BP</font></div><div class=""><font face="Courier" class="">00000 NULL 0 /</font></div><div class=""><font face="Courier" class="">00010 Carriage Ret. 4 3</font></div><div class=""><font face="Courier" class="">00100 Space 2 9</font></div><div class=""><font face="Courier" class="">01000 Line Feed 5 4</font></div><div class=""><font face="Courier" class="">11011 figures 3 5 or +</font></div><div class=""><font face="Courier" class="">11111 letters 1 8 or - </font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><div class="">Now, what’s very confusing is that the addition table given on page 351 of the Copeland book uses the Bletchley Park convention.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So either use the ITA2 naming but then you must use the ITA2 addition rules, or use the Bletchley Park naming for both, but do not mix them!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Emmanuel</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 24 mai 2021 à 16:27, Mark Priestley <<a href="mailto:m.priestley@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">m.priestley@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Emmanuel - <br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I don't know if the cyphertexts have been wrongly transcribed or not, but for sure Friedrich Bauer made a slip when he added them together, as I described in my earlier post (did you see that?).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If the originals exists, they might be in the Bletchley Park archives. Their website <a href="https://bletchleypark.org.uk/" target="_blank" class="">https://bletchleypark.org.uk/</a> has some information about their collections and archives, and contact details.<br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Best</div><div class="">Mark</div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, 24 May 2021 at 14:41, E. Lazard <<a href="mailto:Emmanuel.Lazard@dauphine.psl.eu" target="_blank" class="">Emmanuel.Lazard@dauphine.psl.eu</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div class="">Many thanks for your answers.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">Le 24 mai 2021 à 04:38, <a href="mailto:thomas.haigh@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">thomas.haigh@gmail.com</a> a écrit :</div><br class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">I wonder if the problem is in part that Copeland got the teleprinter character set wrong. Some years ago I was working from the version given in his appendix when trying to understand the quirks in the interaction of German and the teleprinter code that explained why the deltas between the bit patterns for successive characters were both much more likely to be 0 than 1. That is what underpinned Tutte's method, used by Colossus, which exploited the fact that the deltas between successive characters were not fully scrambled by the Lorenz equipment. So there was a clear statistical signature that marked the correct positions for the first two "Chi wheels." (That analysis underpinned my attempt to give an accurate but non-mathematical account of the process in<span class=""> </span><a href="https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/1/211102-colossal-genius/fulltext" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">https://cacm.acm.org/magazines/2017/1/211102-colossal-genius/fulltext</a>).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">I was having some difficulty in squaring tables in archival reports giving the most common two letter sequences in the encoded messages with the bit patterns for the deltas between them. Then I realized, or my collaborator Mark Priestley pointed out, that the discrepancies were caused by errors in the teleprinter alphabet Copeland included as appendix 2 on pages 248-9. Five years on I can’t remember if there was just one error or several. But I do remember that the frequency of EI in the plaintext was very high so I just rechecked that his entries for those letters. I see that the code Copeland gives for I (oxxox) does not match the one given at<span class=""> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code</a>. The other clue is that Copeland has the same bit pattern in successive lines, identified first as coding P and then as coding I. They can't both be right.<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Looking at the<span class=""> </span><a href="https://billtuttememorial.org.uk/codebreaking/teleprinter-code/" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">https://billtuttememorial.org.uk/codebreaking/teleprinter-code/</a><span class=""> </span>page that Emmanuel mentions, I notice a similarly blatant error: the page identifies both M and N as being coded by (ooxxx). Which doesn't match Copeland or Wikipedia. So it appears that both the Tutte fan site and the Copeland book present incorrect teleprinter alphabets.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I’ve checked in my copy of the Copeland book and indeed, the <font face="Courier" class="">I</font> code isn’t correct: it’s given as <font face="Courier" class="">•xx•x</font> (same as P) but it should be <font face="Courier" class="">•xx••</font>. </div><div class="">It’s the only mistake in the book (concerning the Baudot code) and it doesn’t solve my issue where <font face="Courier" class="">I</font> isn’t involved…</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Hence Emanuel shouldn't discount the possibility that the cyphertexts are correct but the teleprinter code to bit conversions are wrongly given in both the sources he is relying on. Having said that, given the rather low standards of proofreading we're seeing here it wouldn't shock me if the cypher text sequences were also given wrongly in Copeland and copied from one website to another with errors included. I don't have time to check back to primary sources, but if I was doing serious work on the technicalities of this, I'd either dig into the archival sources or at least work as much as possible from Reeds, James A., Whitfield Diffie, and J V Field. Breaking Teleprinter Ciphers at Bletchley Park. An Edition of General Report on Tunny With Emphasis on Statistical Methods (1945). Piscataway, NJ: IEEE Press/Wiley, 2015 (</span><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Teleprinter-Ciphers-Bletchley-Park/dp/0470465891" style="font-size:11pt;color:rgb(5,99,193)" target="_blank" class="">https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Teleprinter-Ciphers-Bletchley-Park/dp/0470465891</a><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">). This is a heavily annotated and supplemented reprint of a formerly secret report written as the operation was being wound down at the end of the war. Chapter 41-44 give a thorough description of the original methods used prior to mechanization. (Though not, as far as I can see on a quick look, the full text of the messages in question).</span></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Regarding one of Brian's comments, IIRC "addition" was simply what the BP staff called the operation we're more used to thinking of as XOR. So that might not be a source of error. They also spoke of dots and crosses rather than 1 and 0. It’s just more natural for us today to XOR 1s and 0s than to add dots and crosses. Brian is right about the shift codes, which helped to create some of the regularities in the deltas exploited by the codebreakers. IIRC, however, the shift codes get encrypted just like the other characters, rather than being stripped out by the Lorenz equipment prior to encryption as he suggests.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Brian’s code is just a NOT-XOR, which is just symmetrical. For the operations, exchanging 1’s and 0’s is completely irrelevant, so using XOR or its opposite doesn’t change anything.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">So I’m more and more convinced that the ciphertexts have been wrongly given and copied from one website to the other… I’ve of course read the "general report on Tunny" but unfortunately, the ciphertexts are not given in it. So I guess I would have to dig through the archives… Any idea whom I may contact?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><div class="">Emmanuel</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration:none" class=""><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">-----Original Message-----<br class="">From: Members <<a href="mailto:members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org</a>> On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter<br class="">Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2021 6:52 PM<br class="">To: E. Lazard <<a href="mailto:Emmanuel.Lazard@dauphine.psl.eu" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">Emmanuel.Lazard@dauphine.psl.eu</a>>;<span class=""> </span><a href="mailto:members@sigcis.org" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">members@sigcis.org</a><br class="">Subject: Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Question about the Tiltman break in Lorenz cypher (1941)</div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Emmanuel,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">On 24-May-21 09:47, E. Lazard wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> Dear all,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> I’m looking for some original information on the famous "Tiltman break" which led to the cryptanalysis of the Lorenz cipher en 1941.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Lorenz_cipher" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Lorenz_cipher</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> <<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Lorenz_cipher" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Lorenz_cipher</span></a>>)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> (<a href="http://www.eprg.org/computerphile/lorenz-combined.pdf" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">http://www.eprg.org/computerphile/lorenz-combined.pdf</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> <<a href="http://www.eprg.org/computerphile/lorenz-combined.pdf" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">http://www.eprg.org/computerphile/lorenz-combined.pdf</span></a>>)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> The story is: the British intercepted two messages sent with the same key (HQIBPEXEZMUG) also called a "depth".<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> When adding the two cipher texts with the exclusive-or function, the key cancels out and what is left is the exclusive-or of the two plain texts.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> From there, brigadier John Tiltman found the two messages by trying various likely pieces of plaintext and found that the first message started with the word SPRUCHNUMMER (message number) and that the second message also used the same word but shortened out as SPRUCHNR.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> EVERY SINGLE WEBSITE and the Copeland book "Colossus" list the two intercepted cypher texts as:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> C1 = JSH5N ZYMFS 01151 VKU1Y U4NCE JEGPB<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> C2 = JSH5N ZYZY5 GLFRG XO5SQ 5DA1J JHD5O<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> and their exclusive-or as:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> D = ///// //FOU GF14M AQSG5 SEKZR /YWHE<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Indeed, S and 5 combine to give V according to<span class=""> </span><a href="https://billtuttememorial.org.uk/codebreaking/teleprinter-code/" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class=""><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none" class="">https://billtuttememorial.org.uk/codebreaking/teleprinter-code/</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> My problem is that IT DOES NOT ADD UP!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> The U in 10th position is not the correct result, it should be a V.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> (S is 10100, 5 is 11011, so their exclusive-or is 01111 which is V)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">However, there are two problems with your comment:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">1) The code for 5 is actually 11110, the same as the code for T, but in figure shift. I assume that the Lorentz system removed the figure shift and letter shift codes before starting the crypto work.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">11011 is indeed the figure shift code, so the actual bit stream would have contained 11011 11110 11111.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">2) The appropriate operation is not XOR. It's what Bletchley Park called "addition", as described at the above web site. While that doesn't explain this U/V error, which I suppose started as a transcription error, it probably explains the other errors you mention.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Regards<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""> <span class=""> </span>Brian Carpenter<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> And I found other issues with all examples using the cypher text, the messages, the key… I always have several letters which are wrong.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> So I’m wondering if I’ve misunderstood something or have the cypher texts been incorrectly written down once and everybody just copied them without checking?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> Anybody has genuine information or can point me to some source?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> Regards<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> Emmanuel Lazard<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">><span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> _______________________________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> This email is relayed from members at<span class=""> </span><a href="http://sigcis.org/" style="color:rgb(5,99,193);text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0in;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">> list of SHOT SIGCIS. 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