<div><div><div>Paul,</div><div><br></div><div>Given that Dr. Sweeney's post specifically referenced the Rankin discussion thread, I'm not sure where you feel your work was impugned. Your inexact comment about gender and sex, particularly with reference to how 'silly' it was to not see the "<span style="color:rgb(49,49,49);word-spacing:1px">value as readily understood descriptors of physical structure and/or relationships", when read in comparison to the Rankin thread, certainly reads as dismissive, much the same way as Paul Rankin's attempt to 'discipline' Dr. Sweeney's research and institutional credentials.</span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(49,49,49);word-spacing:1px"><br></span></div><div><font color="#313131"><span style="word-spacing:1px">Kudos on your work over the last few decades to promote gender studies in the history of computing, but given the ways that i've seen SIGCIS members respond to discussions involving race/gender/sexuality, there's still a long way to go before those topics are accepted as legitimate subjects of inquiry on this discussion list, much less in this field. </span></font></div><div><font color="#313131"><span style="word-spacing:1px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#313131"><span style="word-spacing:1px">Finally, a friendly word. Your credentials 'hail' you as a historian and scholar of technology, but your identity as an ally to those from underrepresented groups is performed from moment to moment; particularly given the ongoing discussions here and elsewhere. Crediting the men in this thread for their 'courteous, friendly, and thoughtful' contributions without recognizing the legitimately powerful affirmations of the female scholars who commented here ('it would be great if more women would chime in here')- or by not calling out the actions of your male colleagues in the Rankin thread - does not read as allyship 'in the moment'. </span></font></div><div><br></div><div>Collegially, </div><div><br></div><div>A.</div><div><br></div><div>Andre Brock</div><div>Assistant Professor, Communication Studies</div><div>University of Michigan</div><div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(49,49,49);word-spacing:1px"><br></div></div><div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(49,49,49);word-spacing:1px"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 5:58 PM Paul N. Edwards <<a href="mailto:pne@umich.edu" target="_blank">pne@umich.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">All, in response to Miriam’s post: <div><br></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>I did not say that mammals have gender. My post could certainly have been clearer about the difference between sex (the relevant metaphor in the cases I mentioned) and gender as a social construction.<div><br></div><div>Anyone who knows my work will realize that I am one of the many people, of all genders, who have worked tirelessly for the last 35 years to promote attention to gender studies, to women, to race, and to LGBT issues in the history of computing. So I am hardly “uninformed” on this subject. If anyone is curious, I will be happy to provide a long list of bona fides offline.</div><div><br></div><div>This thread started with Caitlin’s query about gendered terms in engineering. It was a question seeking answers. The replies on this thread may have come mostly from men, but all were courteous, friendly, and clearly intended to be thoughtful contributions to a scholarly discussion.</div><div><br></div><div>I apologize if something in my post was offensive, but I reject the idea that men commenting on gender issues is somehow out of line. Of course it would be great if more women would chime in. </div><div><br></div><div>Let’s please return this discussion to its previous respectful tone. </div><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Paul</div><div><br></div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On May 24, 2017, at 11:58 , Sweeney, Miriam <<a href="mailto:mesweeney1@ua.edu" target="_blank">mesweeney1@ua.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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Hi Folks,
<div><br>
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<div>Two thoughts here:</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Firstly, mammals don’t have gender (a socially constructed concept reflecting ideas about masculinity and femininity). There is nothing obvious or literal about the metaphor of “female” and “male” connectors- they are indeed ideological referents. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Secondly, I can’t help but read this thread in direct contrast to the thread criticizing Rankin’s talk. I note that on the latter thread a woman scholar is being taken to task for presenting informed research on gender in computing, while on
this thread we have male scholars hazarding uninformed guesses about gender and computing metaphors with no pushback whatsoever. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Reading these threads side by side has definitely given me pause on the state of the field and the challenges we continue to have for fully integrating cultural studies, gender, and race perspectives into information and computing studies.</div>
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<div><span style="color:rgb(153,0,0);font-size:16px;font-weight:bold;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">Miriam E. Sweeney</span>
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Assistant Professor , School of Library and Information Studies </p>
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<a href="https://www.ua.edu/" style="color:maroon;text-decoration:none" target="_blank">The University of Alabama</a> <br>
527 Gorgas <br>
Box 870252<br>
Tuscaloosa , AL <br>
office <a href="tel:205-348-1522" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">205-348-1522</a> <br>
<a href="mailto:mesweeney1@ua.edu" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">mesweeney1@ua.edu</a> <span style="color:rgb(153,0,0)">| </span><a href="https://slis.ua.edu/" style="text-decoration:none" target="_blank">https://slis.ua.edu/</a>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On May 24, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Paul N. Edwards <<a href="mailto:pne@umich.edu" target="_blank">pne@umich.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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Interesting discussion. OED does not speculate on this connection; first use of “motherboard” it lists is 1965.
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<div>It’s worth noting that some of the gendered terms in engineering are very clear and literal metaphors, not specifically human though definitely mammalian.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>“Mother ship,” like “motherboard,” refers to a larger thing from which smaller, but similar dependent units (smaller ships, subsidiary circuit boards) are launched, to which they are attached, and from which they draw sustenance (fuel, electricity). </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>“Female” and “male” connectors refer to sockets and plugs respectively, also quite literal, also not particularly human but mammalian.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>This is not to say that such metaphors aren’t sometimes deployed in objectionable, human-oriented ways, but it would be silly to ignore their value as readily understood descriptors of physical structure and/or relationships.</div>
<div><br>
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<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Paul</div>
<div><br>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On May 24, 2017, at 9:43 , mike willegal <<a href="mailto:mike@willegal.net" target="_blank">mike@willegal.net</a>> wrote:</div>
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My guess is that the term, Motherboard, was derived from the term Mothership, which is still in common usage by the general population, and according to several online dictionaries originated in the 19th century. Note that when techs and engineers refer to
Motherboards, they normally use the gender neutral pronoun, "it".
<div><br>
</div>
<div>cheers,</div>
<div>Mike Willegal</div>
<div><br>
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<div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On May 23, 2017, at 1:51 PM, Mark Priestley <<a href="mailto:m.priestley@gmail.com" target="_blank">m.priestley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Hi Caitlin,<br>
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I'm not sure if this is the sort of thing you're looking for, but some CS pioneers were rather keen to use the master-slave metaphor to talk about human-computer relations. Eg:<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Jack Good reported that: "Turing used to refer jocularly to people who are forced to do<br>
mechanical operations as slaves."<br>
<br>
</div>
Bardini quotes Engelbart: "Think ahead to the day when computer technology might provide for your very own use the full-time services of a completely attentive, very patient, very fast symbol-manipulating slave who has an IQ adequate for 95% of your today's
mental tasks."<br>
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And there's <a href="http://markpriestley.net/pdfs/Huskey.pdf" target="_blank">this</a> unfortunate Newsweek caption about Harry Huskey.<br>
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</div>
<div>I think probably links back to earlier tropes about robots: eg in Capek's RUR, the rebellious robots are precisely slaves. I've got an unpublished conference paper I wrote a few years back about this which I could dig out if you're interested.<br>
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Cheers,<br>
</div>
Mark<br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 23 May 2017 at 18:29, McMillan, William W <span>
<<a href="mailto:william.mcmillan@cuaa.edu" target="_blank">william.mcmillan@cuaa.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Caitlin, this is an interesting study!<br>
<br>
I'm not sure, though, if "today's engineers" would very readily coin gender-specific terms for parts of computers. These terms go back a long way.<br>
<br>
The "master-slave" terminology has going for it that the relationship between, say, a bus arbiter and connected devices is, in truth, a master-slave relationship. The other connotations make it hard for me to use the terms in class, but it's difficult to find
synonyms. Controller-controlled? Decider-doer? Kind of awkward. (Suggestions welcome!)<br>
<br>
In contrast to the gendered terms, in describing the tree data structure, the relationship between nodes has always been parent-child, back at least to Knuth's volumes, not father-son, mother-son, or the like. Same with object/class hierarchies.<br>
<br>
- Bill<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
From: Members [<a href="mailto:members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org" target="_blank">members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org</a>] on behalf of Wylie, Caitlin Donahue (cdw9y) [<a href="mailto:cdw9y@eservices.virginia.edu" target="_blank">cdw9y@eservices.virginia.edu</a>]<br>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2017 8:11 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:members@SIGCIS.org" target="_blank">members@SIGCIS.org</a><br>
Subject: [SIGCIS-Members] History of gendered terms, e.g., "motherboard"<br>
<br>
Dear all,<br>
Do you know of any studies of gendered language in computing? I’m intrigued by the way today’s engineers throw around words like “motherboard” and “daughterboard”, and also “master” and “slave”, without being aware of how those words sound to non-engineers
(like me). I’d be interested in learning about historical or sociological studies.<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
<br>
All the best,<br>
Caitlin Wylie<br>
_______________________<br>
Caitlin D. Wylie, Ph.D.<br>
Assistant Professor<br>
Program in Science, Technology and Society<br>
University of Virginia<br>
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<a href="http://www.eands.virginia.edu/faculty-staff/wylie/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.eands.virginia.edu/faculty-staff/wylie/</a><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org/" target="_blank">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div><div><br><div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;word-wrap:break-word"><span class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Helvetica Neue';font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Helvetica Neue';font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;border-spacing:0px"><div style="font-family:Arial;margin:0px"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:0px"><div style="font-family:Arial;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">—————————————————</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">Paul N. Edwards</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">Professor of <a href="http://www.si.umich.edu/" target="_blank">Information</a> and <a href="http://www.lsa.umich.edu/history/" target="_blank">History</a></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">Distinguished Faculty in Sustainability, <a href="http://graham.umich.edu/" target="_blank">Graham Sustainability Institute</a></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">Senior Fellow, <a href="http://societyoffellows.umich.edu/" target="_blank">Michigan Society of Fellows</a></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><br></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><u>Starting July 1, 2017:</u></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><u><br></u></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">William J. Perry Fellow in International Security</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">Center for International Security and Cooperation</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">Stanford University</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><a href="mailto:pedwards@stanford.edu" target="_blank">pedwards@stanford.edu</a></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;margin:0px;min-height:16px"><font face="Geneva">Terse replies are </font><a href="http://five.sentenc.es/" target="_blank">deliberate</a><font face="Geneva">. </font><a href="http://emailcharter.org/" target="_blank">Here's why! </a><br><font face="Geneva"> </font><br><span style="font-family:Arial;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal">University of Michigan </span><a href="http://www.si.umich.edu/" style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal" target="_blank">School of Information</a></div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">4437 North Quad</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">105 S. State Street<br>Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1285</div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">(734) 764-2617 (office) </div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px">(206) 337-1523 (fax) </div><div style="font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-alternates:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;margin:0px"><a href="http://pne.people.si.umich.edu/" target="_blank">pne.people.si.umich.edu</a></div></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline" style="font-family:Helvetica"></div></span></div></div></span></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="m_8082556270133968383m_2284230353345509684m_200112390962822782m_-3514820974688484313Apple-interchange-newline">
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