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<p><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px"><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">> There is a current in both </span><br style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">science and history of science which on the contrary suggests that a </span><br style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">science and its history are and even should be independent disciplines </span><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px"><br>
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<p><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">> I suspect a debate on the utility of the history of computing to current </span><br style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">computing practice is likewise complex and requires effort.</span><br style="color:rgb(33,33,33); font-size:13.3333px">
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</p>
<p>Allan, t<span style="font-size:12pt">hese are very interesting issues </span><span style="font-size:12pt">for</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> all historians of science.
</span><span style="font-size:12pt"></span><span style="font-size:12pt"></span><span style="font-size:12pt">In my case</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> (</span><span style="font-size:12pt">with a BSc in S</span><span style="font-size:12pt">ociology and MA
in History of Science) I have been doing research as a PhD student </span><span style="font-size:12pt">in Barcelona, </span><span style="font-size:12pt">focused
</span><span style="font-size:12pt">on the history of videogames in Spain these last four years</span><span style="font-size:12pt">. </span><span style="font-size:12pt">I should recognize (n</span><span style="font-size:12pt">ow that I am almost</span><span style="font-size:12pt">
finishing my dissertation) that working on the history of videogames (which I relate to the history of computing as well) in an environment dominated mostly by historians of science, it has not always been easy. For example, one time I was showing my current research
in a "work in progress" session, and after almost one hour of talking, someone in the audience asked me: so why should videogames be an issue worth considering within the history of science? </span></p>
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<p><span style="font-size:12pt"><br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12pt">Thus, in a certain way, these last years I felt as if I had to validate or "legitimate" the importance of the history of computer games permanently. Fortunately, two weeks ago I gave a talk in Valencia which I prepared as a response
to the previous question, and </span><span style="font-size:12pt">the audience seemed to be very excited and receptive</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt">to</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> the idea of
</span><span style="font-size:12pt">embracing video games as part for the history of science. </span><span style="font-size:12pt"></span></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Allan, the debates on the utility of the history of computing to current computing practice are complex, as you already commented. It is exactly the same issue that I am dealing with the history of video games. Why should students of engineering, computing
or game design graduates care about the history of these technologies? I do not have a clear answer to that, but I suspect that the debate is dangerous and incorrect: as historians (no matter what is our specialization), we do know that history really matters,
and it is always relevant to better understand the present and the world we all live in. However, when asked about the "utility" of our careers, we are forced to "sell" ourselves as "producers" of knowledge, not for students and other audiences, but for "clients"
who should be "paying" us for our "work". <span style="font-size:12pt">I always </span><span style="font-size:12pt">wonder
</span><span style="font-size:12pt">whether this has to be our real job. </span><span style="font-size:12pt"></span></p>
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<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Ignasi</p>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>De:</b> Members <members-bounces@lists.sigcis.org> de part de Allan Olley <allan.olley@utoronto.ca><br>
<b>Enviat el:</b> dissabte, 12 de novembre de 2016 7:14:42<br>
<b>Per a:</b> Len Shustek<br>
<b>A/c:</b> Sigcis<br>
<b>Tema:</b> Re: [SIGCIS-Members] Importance of history to practitioners</font>
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<div class="PlainText">> Even better would be to have the history of computing embedded in academic<br>
> computing programs. Physicists learn about Newton, and chemists learn<br>
> about Lavoisier, so why shouldn't computer scientists learn about Babbage,<br>
> Turing, and Von Neumann?<br>
<br>
I am curious where physicists learn about Newton or chemists about <br>
Lavoisier as part of the required academic corriculum. I did a physics <br>
degree with little exposure to Newton. There is a current in both <br>
science and history of science which on the contrary suggests that a <br>
science and its history are and even should be independent disciplines <br>
(should the history of science be rated X? ie will it corrupt the <br>
scientist's mind?). I am pretty sure the utility of history of science to <br>
current science is a live controversy.<br>
<br>
As a historian of science (with a BSc in Physics) I tend to think history <br>
of science has something to contribute to science, but the claim can be <br>
tricky to defend.<br>
<br>
I suspect a debate on the utility of the history of computing to current <br>
computing practice is likewise complex and requires effort.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Yours Truly,<br>
Allan Olley, PhD<br>
<br>
<a href="http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/">http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/</a><br>
<br>
On Thu, 10 Nov 2016, Len Shustek wrote:<br>
<br>
> At 09:59 AM 11/10/2016, McMillan, William W wrote:<br>
>> I thought you might like to hear the following. In a meeting with a <br>
>> small software company in Ann Arbor that emphasizes user-centered, agile <br>
>> development, a colleague and I asked what subjects should be included in <br>
>> an academic program in interaction design. The firm's chief designer, <br>
>> who also has a programming background, said that the most important <br>
>> course would be history of computing!<br>
><br>
><br>
> Even better would be to have the history of computing embedded in academic <br>
> computing programs. Physicists learn about Newton, and chemists learn <br>
> about Lavoisier, so why shouldn't computer scientists learn about Babbage, <br>
> Turing, and Von Neumann?<br>
><br>
> My frustration teaching computer architecture at Stanford in the mid-1990s <br>
> with a required syllabus that avoided history led me to start a museum <br>
> nearby, because I knew I wouldn't be able change the curriculum. If you <br>
> are interested in the story of how that happened, see<br>
> <a href="http://s3data.computerhistory.org/atchm/documents/Personal_Reflections_on_the_History_of_the_Computer_History_Museum_09-26-14.pdf">
http://s3data.computerhistory.org/atchm/documents/Personal_Reflections_on_the_History_of_the_Computer_History_Museum_09-26-14.pdf</a><br>
> which is referenced in my blog article on the Computer History Museum's <br>
> 35th [sic] anniversary.<br>
> <a href="http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/computer-history-museum-celebrating-35-years/">
http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm/computer-history-museum-celebrating-35-years/</a><br>
><br>
> -- Len <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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