<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Don Rex, IBM San Jose original ME, has a good
memory - still intact as he approaches his 91st birthday. I'd be
happy to ask for Don's input if you think he might have been associated
with the 610 effort at San Jose. I don't have a good feel for how
quickly the San Jose lab grew from a handful of folks to many
departments and multiple buildings. <br><br>We have recordings of the IBM band with chorus at Endicott and Glendale, the longest running corporate band in the US - started at ITR. Alas the originals were recorded by a boom box on a chair; we have cleaned up the files (removing street noise from lunch time plaza concerts), but there is no sparkle in the sound. If anyone is interested in low quality audio files, please let me know. Playlist attached.<br></div></div><div><br></div></div>Susan<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Murray Turoff <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:murray.turoff@gmail.com" target="_blank">murray.turoff@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Ahhh! I worked on the IBM 1620 for IBM in san jose for a year 1960-1961.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">It was a "personal computer" about the size of a desk. It had a continuous memory <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">and you could set up the word length you wanted. Memory was based upon our standard<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">digital system to the base 10. At that point in time there was only three machines at<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">the San Jose plant and a group of us were working on applications. I wrote a guide to<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">machine level programming and debugging and worked with others on a Fortran System as well <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">a numerical control application package. It was a fun machine to work with.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small"><br>At the San Jose plant a lot of sales people were brought in to be educated in new but not yet<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">released products. They always sang IBM songs to start the meeting. I think somehwere i have<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">burried an IBM song book. They were extremely loyal as some them were with IBM in 1929 and <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">it was only IBM and ATT that did not fire any professional during that recession. Many had nothing much<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">to do so they started a song writing contest which resulted in the song book. I have never checked <br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">if the song book is online anywhere.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 4:52 AM, Mounier Kuhn <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mounier@msh-paris.fr" target="_blank">mounier@msh-paris.fr</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">Thanks for this discussion. Bashe et al., in
their book <i>IBM's Early Computers,</i>
explain that the IBM 610 was not developed to answer any market demand ;
it reflected the internal needs of IBM’s growing staff of engineers and
scientists who used desk calculators. Being not a priority, its development was
delayed, but it inspired the successful IBM 1620… and perhaps many small
computers marketed by competitors in the late 1950s. So we have a faily good
idea of what use was envisioned : A scientist or engineer who needed to
perform relatively simple calculations which did not justify the cost of waiting in line to use a mainframe.<u></u><u></u></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">It would be interesting to know :<u></u><u></u></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">- what competitive advantage the IBM 610 had
over a good desk calculator ;<u></u><u></u></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">- how the IBM 610 was renamed from
Personal Automatic Calculator to Auto-Point Computer (the choice of <i>Computer</i> makes sense, but <i>Auto-Point</i>?)</font><span style="font-size:small"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">I have an alternative question (sorry if it is
half off-topic !). In the early 1970s, the term<i> micro-ordinateur</i> [<i>micro-computer</i>]
appeared in various development projects within the French Plan Calcul. It
designated any « very small computer », whatever the technology – it
was not necessarily related with microprocessors. Was the term <i>micro-computer </i>used in this broad sense
in other locations, before 1975 when microprocessor-based<i> </i>micro-computers became the mainstream concept in this market
segment ?</font><font size="3"><u></u><u></u></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2">Best,</font></p>
Pierre<br><br><div><font face="Times">Pierre Mounier-Kuhn</font></div><div><span style="font-family:Times">CNRS & Université Paris-Sorbonne</span><br style="font-family:Times"><a href="http://pups.paris-sorbonne.fr/catalogue/centre-roland-mousnier/linformatique-en-france-de-la-seconde-guerre-mondiale-au-plan-calcul" style="font-family:Times" target="_blank">L’Emergence d’une science: l’informatique</a><br style="font-family:Times"><a href="http://koyre.ehess.fr/docannexe/file/400/cv_mounier_kuhn.pdf" style="font-family:Times" target="_blank">http://koyre.ehess.fr/docannexe/file/1203/mounier_kuhn_cv_anglais.pdf</a><br style="font-family:Times"><a href="https://cnrs.academia.edu/PierreMounierKuhn" style="font-family:Times" target="_blank">https://cnrs.academia.edu/PierreMounierKuhn</a><br><br>
</div><div><div>
<br><div><div>Le 3 mars 2016 à 01:38, Hansen Hsu <<a href="mailto:hansnhsu@gmail.com" target="_blank">hansnhsu@gmail.com</a>> a écrit :</div><br><blockquote type="cite">I’ve noticed this too. Gordon Bell, Wes Clark, and Alan Kay have all been on record saying that they considered the LINC the first personal computer, as it was also designed for use by an individual (a biomedical researcher).<br>Joe November’s excellent book goes into some detail on this. LINC inspired some of the creators of the Alto, both in terms of the user’s experience of controlling the entire machine, but also in some aspects of its hardware architecture.<br>I certainly think LINC belongs in the pre-history of the personal computer, as does Engelbart’s NLS, but I would hesitate to call it a “personal computer” for precisely the reasons you’ve outlined for the IBM 610, which is even earlier.<br>If one took the criteria to be that an individual had complete control over the machine while in use, then TX-0 or even Whirlwind might count as personal computers. The term begins to lack meaning at that point.<br><br><blockquote type="cite">On Mar 2, 2016, at 4:11 PM, Allan Olley <<a href="mailto:allan.olley@utoronto.ca" target="_blank">allan.olley@utoronto.ca</a>> wrote:<br><br>Hello,<br><a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/610.html" target="_blank">http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/610.html</a><br><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The 610 was under development as the Personal Automatic Computer (acording to this website and according to Bashe et al. in the MIT book IBM's Early Computer, a prototype was operating by 1954 with commercial release by 1957) it was intended as a more real time less batch modey sort of machine unlike other machines of that time, but no one really seriously seems to claim it has any relation to any other "personal computer" either in terms of hardware details (it apparently had very ideosyncratic hardware) or even as vague inspiration.<br><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>The key point I guess is that it pretty clearly has nothing to do with the microprocessor based computers of the 1970s and later that are usually called personal computers.<br><br><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I have noticed that the idea of a personal computer and personal computing gets used to describe<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>machines before the microprocessor machines of the 1970s. The website mentions the Bendix G-15 as another example of this (some apparently claim it as the first personal computer and it was released commercially in 1956). The issue here is that any computer an individual has complete control of regardless of its characteristics (size, intended use etc.) can become a personal computer in terms of how that user feels about it and interacts with it. So any computer can be a personal computer in that ambigious sense it seems to me. It also gets complicated because people's interactions with earlier transistor and vacuum tube machines influenced them in designing and using the microprocessor machines that are unambigiously personal computers. So there are connections that should be made that make it complicated.<br><br>-- <br>Yours Truly,<br>Allan Olley, PhD<br><br><a href="http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/" target="_blank">http://individual.utoronto.ca/fofound/</a><br><br>On Wed, 2 Mar 2016, John Impagliazzo wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">Hi All,<br><br>Allegedly, some consider the IBM 610 Auto-Point computer (1959) the<br>‘first personal computer’. <a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/plugboard.html" target="_blank">http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/plugboard.html</a><br>Is this true – even slightly true??<br><br>John<br><br>John Impagliazzo, Ph.D.<br>Professor Emeritus, Hofstra University<br>IEEE Life Fellow<br>ACM Distinguished Educator<br></blockquote>_______________________________________________<br>This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org" target="_blank">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a><br></blockquote><br>_______________________________________________<br>This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org" target="_blank">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
This email is relayed from members at <a href="http://sigcis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">sigcis.org</a>, the email discussion list of SHOT SIGCIS. Opinions expressed here are those of the member posting and are not reviewed, edited, or endorsed by SIGCIS. The list archives are at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/pipermail/members-sigcis.org/</a> and you can change your subscription options at <a href="http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.sigcis.org/listinfo.cgi/members-sigcis.org</a><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br></font></span></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div><b>please send messages to <a href="mailto:murray.turoff@gmail.com" target="_blank">murray.turoff@gmail.com</a> do not use @<a href="http://njit.edu" target="_blank">njit.edu</a> address<br><br>Distinguished Professor Emeritus<br>Information Systems, NJIT<br>homepage: <a href="http://is.njit.edu/turoff" target="_blank">http://is.njit.edu/turoff</a><br></b><br></div>
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